Re: Fastnet Storm

[Peter Byrne Manchester <PMANCHESTER@ccmail.sunysb.edu>]

Karen L. `San Francisco' Newcombe <kln@crl.com> wrote <Subject: Fastnet 
Storm>:

> I vaguely remember someone asking Kate in an interview if the Ninth 
> Wave was about some famous sea accident . . . is this in the archives? 
> Anyone want to look it up?

HOOboy!  Ok.  I certainly miss Ron Hill, who used to show up the next day 
after a request like this with an appallingly long set of excerpts.  Ron 
seems to be on extended hiatus these days (be well, Ron!), but he has 
left us his Tools:  the Cloudbusting archive.  So, in the spirit of Ron's 
famous posts, here is what I found about the background of "The Ninth 
Wave" in general.  <Drew:  do you have Cloudbusting?  If not, tell me 
whether you can receive an ascii text of about 476K, or get in touch and 
we'll work something else out.  Kate's compiled interview comments on the 
whole side are *the* basic resource for your project!>

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FROM:  CLOUD1.TXT   476082   9-09-91   4:25p

THE NINTH WAVE (2nd side of Hounds of Love)
-------------------------------------------

        That takes us to the second side, which itself had two or three 
drafts.

      It was very different for me working conceptually across half an 
hour's worth of music, rather than five minutes optimum in a song, and it 
was very interesting but more demanding.  The whole was changed by 
anything you did to one part of the concept.  Once the piece was in 
context with what was happening before and after it, it would change its 
nature dramatically, and it was important that the whole side kept a 
sense of flow and yet kept the interest and kept building and ebbing in 
the right places.

     The side is about someone who is in the water alone for the night.  
(1985, KBC 18)


        I think, even though a lot of people say that the side is about  
someone drowning, it's more about someone who's not drowning.  And how 
they're there for the night in the water being visited by their past, 
present, and future to keep them awake, to keep them going through until 
the morning until there's hope.  [BIG SMILE]  (1985, MTV)



        [DREAMS -] THAT'S WHAT THE WHOLE SECOND SIDE OF HOUNDS OF LOVE  
TALKS ABOUT?

     More the struggle brought about by the need to stay awake, when it 
would be so easy to fall asleep.  It's the story of someone who is in the 
sea, at night, and the experiences through which they pass in order to 
emerge a better person by morning.  I'm making a long story short.   
(1985, Guitares et Claviers)
 

        It's about someone who is in the water for the night.   Alone in 
the water.  And it's really about their past, present and future coming 
to keep them awake to stop them drowning, to stop them going to sleep 
until the morning comes.

     IT ISN'T IMMEDIATELY OBVIOUS, IS IT, IF YOU LISTEN TO THE ALBUM?

     No, I don't think so.  I don't know if that's relevant or important 
though.  I think the most important thing is that people that listen to 
it get something out of it, that they enjoy it.

     ALRIGHT.  NOW, YOU SEEM TO HAVE A FASCINATION WITH WATER.  I NOTICED 
THAT A COUPLE OF YOUR FAVORITE MOVIES, DON'T LOOK NOW AND CRUEL SEA,  
WHICH ARE VERY MUCH ON A WATERY THEME.  SO HAVE YOU A FASCINATION FOR  
WATER?

     Yes, yes I do.  I think that everyone does really.  I think that  
cruel sea was one film that I particularly mentioned though as being a  
very influential force for this side.  So, it would have to do something 
with water.  [CHUCKLES]

      AND ALSO, THERE'S THE TENNYSON POEM, ISN'T IT? "THE COMING OF  
ARTHUR"?

    I think, um, a lot of people tend to presume that the whole side was 
written from that quote and, in fact, that it was completely the other 
way around, where, I just needed a title for the whole piece and there 
was nothing within any of the songs, any of the titles that was right for 
it.  so I just started looking through some books to try and find a title 
and found that quote, which seemed to be saying, more or less, what I 
wanted to say, so it was used to express the title.   (1985, Conversation 
Series 1)
 

        Last year we went to Ireland to do some recording in Dublin, and 
took a couple of weeks out.  It was brilliant, because I was writing 
lyrics, and we were right by the sea.  A lot of the time that I was  
thinking about putting this album together, I was right there with the  
water.

     I love the sea.  It's the energy that's so attractive--the fact  
that it's so huge.  And war films, where people would come off the ship  
and be stuck in the water with no sense of where they were or of time, 
like sensory deprivation.  It's got to be ultimately terrifying.  (1985, 
ZigZag)


        It's quite hard to pinpoint the initial inspiration, but I'm sure 
that it came from, um, a combination of war movies where people were, 
soldiers were, either thrown out of the ship or a plane into the sea.  
And that whole strength of imagery of water, of the sea, this enormous 
great power with this tiny little human being in it.  And I suppose the 
whole parallel to things likes sensory deprivation, where if you're in 
the water long enough, you know you start, ah, your mind starts 
traveling.  So it gave me a vehicle to travel to different places and yet 
keep a theme.

        DID YOU TAKE YOURSELF TO AN ISOLATION TANK OR ANYTHING TO ACHIEVE 
THAT PARTICULAR SENSATION?

        [LAUGHS]  No, it's something that I would certainly like to  
experience.  But I spent a lot of time writing, particularly the lyrics, 
by water.  I was standing by the sea or by lakes.  So a lot of the time 
there was water stimulus.    (1985, MuchMusic)
 

        THE SLEEVE QUOTES A CHUNK OF LORD TENNYSON'S POEM, THE COMING OF 
ARTHUR.  WAS THAT THE INITIAL INSPIRATION FOR THE PIECE?

     No, actually it was the other way around.  I wanted a title for the 
whole thing.  I was looking through some books and found this quote.  In 
his poem he's talking about the secrets of waves working in nine--like a 
complete cycle, with everything building up to the ninth wave and 
starting again.  I've always liked using quotes for things.  (1985, 
ZigZag)


        The Ninth Wave is a quote from a poem by Tennyson.  Some people 
have though that the whole side was based on this poem and in fact it's 
completely the other way around - where I'd written the whole side, 
wanted a title that would sum up the energy of it, and was looking  
through books, etc, to try to find a title, as I didn't feel it was  
there within the songs themselves.  And I found that and it seemed to be 
such a good parallel, the fact that it's such water imagery, and he's 
talking about how waves work in cycles of nine, all building up to the 
ninth one, and then it starts again.

        THERE'S LOTS OF SCARY WATER IMAGES ON THE NINTH WAVE - A MAN  
DROWNING AND TRYING TO GET OUT FROM UNDERNEATH THE ICE, A WITCH BEING 
BUNKED, FISHERMAN AT SEA, AND SO ON.  WHERE DID YOU FIRST GET THE IDEA  
TO DO THIS THEME ABOUT WATER AND IT'S FRIGHTENING ASPECTS.

        I don't think water is something I think of as threatening,  
really.  It's an incredibly beautiful thing and its one of those  
imageries that I think forever, both way back into the past and into the 
future, will always be used by writers.  Water, the sea is one of those 
incredible images, it's so powerful, so almighty, so kind and so cruel.  
And I think, what attracted me was all kinds of things.   Obviously the 
imagery there but also the idea of a tiny human being, this little thing, 
all alone in this great expanse of cruelty, that elemental force, and the 
contrast between the two.  Something that I think attracts me as a writer 
in music as well, the contrast of textures, putting something with 
something else that perhaps isn't meant to go and playing with those 
ideas.    (1985, Late November, The  New Music)


    WHERE DID THAT IDEA COME FROM? IT'S NOT SOMETHING ONE WOULD  USUALLY 
WRITE A SONG ABOUT, IF YOU GET WHAT I MEAN...

     Yes.  I think the imagery for the whole piece--a lot of it I think  
came from moving out of London, in that I was surrounded much more by  
elements than people and man-made things.  The power of things like the 
wind in the trees, I mean.  It sounds corny, but it's very earthy, and I 
think it does affect you.  Also some war films that covered people coming 
off ships, out of planes, into the sea, in situations where they were 
alone and frightened, into a huge thing--the sea is just enormous and 
really so unknown, and very taken for granted.  I don't think that many 
people consider that cruel side of the sea, and how...ultimate it  
is...And also the whole thing of almost...like sensory deprivation,  
where you've been in the water a while, you start losing all sense of  
where you are, who you are, whether you're upside down or whatever.  And 
I just found the whole thing terribly fascinating--[coughs--laughter  
from audience] Although a very physical event, very much a mental event  
as well in that you are travelling in your head, even though your body  
is just floating in water.  (1985, Homeground)


        WHY THEN ALL THE NINTH WAVE AND WATER AND ICE.

        I think it was an idea I probably got a few years ago of someone 
being in the water for the night, and hadn't really tried it until this 
album.  It's hard to say where it came from.  I can only pinpoint certain 
war films as imagery that would suggest it, things like  The  Cruel Sea , 
those kind of old war films, where the people were being cast into the 
water, having really been through kind of a heavy experience already.  
And the thing of actually launching from that, so that's the basis of the 
body in the water, but then the head travels off as the night goes on.


     ALRIGHT, YOU MENTIONED DROWNING.  HAVE YOU A PHOBIA OF DROWNING AND 
DEATH?  I MEAN, DOES IT WORRY YOU IN PARTICULAR, OR IS IT SOMETHING YOU 
JUST TAKE IN STRIDE?

     I don't think I have a phobia of water at all.  I think it is 
something we should all be certainly scared of, be respectful of it.  but 
I don't think I have a phobia of water.  and death I think is something 
anyone who writes would certainly deal with death at some point.  I 
rather like Woody Allen's quote about he doesn't mind dying, but he 
doesn't want to be there when it happens.  [LAUGHING]  (1985, 
Conversation Series 1)


        WITH "THE NINTH WAVE," IT'S ALL ABOUT A MAN DROWNING.  WAS THAT, 
PERHAPS, INSPIRED BY THE AIRCRAFT THAT CRASHED INTO THE, UH, INTO A 
FROZEN RIVER IN THE STATES.  THERE WAS QUITE A BIG NEWS STORY ABOUT THAT 
A FEW YEARS AGO.  DO YOU REMEMBER THAT?  THERE WAS THE CASE OF THE MAN--
THEY CALLED HIM "THE MAN IN THE WATER"--WHO KEPT ON GOING BACK AND  
DRAGGING PEOPLE OUT FROM UNDERNEATH THE ICE.

        No, I didn't hear about that.  It sounds really interesting and 
horrific.

        I JUST THOUGHT THAT MIGHT...

        [INTERRUPTING]  A plane went under the ice?

        YEAH, NO, A PLANE ACTUALLY CRASHED AND HIT A BRIDGE OVER THE ROAD 
AND ALL THE PEOPLE WERE SPILLED INTO THE WATER AND THERE WAS ONE 
PARTICULAR MAN THAT THEY HAD TV FILM OF; HE JUST KEPT GOING BACKWARDS  
AND FORWARDS AND DRAGGING PEOPLE OUT, AND EVENTUALLY HE DIDN'T COME OUT. 
HE WAS LIKE, WHAT THEY CALLED "THE MAN IN THE WATER."  I JUST WONDERED IF 
THAT WAS...

        [INTERRUPTING AGAIN]  Incredible.

         ...AT ALL INSPIRING?

        No.

        YOU HADN'T KNOWN THAT ALL BEFORE?  [LAUGHING, ALONG WITH KATE] 
WELL, THERE GOES THAT!  (1985, Picture Disk)


    OBVIOUSLY ON ONE LEVEL THE NINTH WAVE IS ABOUT SOMEBODY NEARLY 
DROWNING.  BUT I WAS STRUCK BY IMAGES WHICH SUGGESTED THAT THERE COULD  
BE DRUGS INVOLVED.  THERE'S THE LINE IN AND DREAM OF SLEEP [SIC]: "I  
CAN'T BE LEFT TO MY IMAGINATION/LET ME BE WEAK..." AND THEN THERE'S THE  
MENTION OF POPPIES.

        Definitely there is the connection, with the poppies.  That 
imagery  wasn't really meant to be drug-orientated, but when you think of 
poppies you automatically get that sense of terrible drowsiness, and I  
suppose you do connect it to opium.
 
      THEN IN THE ICE SONG [SIC; THE INTERVIEWER IS THINKING OF UNDER 
ICE] THERE IS THE REFERENCE TO "MAKING [SIC] LINES, LITTLE LINES," WHICH 
CAN OBVIOUSLY BE INTERPRETED IN THOSE TERMS.  [OBVIOUSLY?]  THERE'S ALSO 
A CONNECTION IN SNOW AND PERVASIVE WHITENESS.

    Yes, absolutely.  But really it wasn't conscious when I was writing  
it, and it was only a few weeks before we finished the album that people 
said, "God, have you looked at this: "Cutting little lines," and I had 
really not consciously considered that at all.  I mean, the whole thing 
is about skaters cutting ice, and leaving tracks instead of footprints.  
And it's cold and empty.  For me, the ultimate loneliness is not a 
complete wasteland, but for it to be completely frozen.  It was that 
imagery more than a drug-based one.  But you are right...

        SOMEONE EXPERIENCING A HABIT COULD METAPHORICALLY BE SAID TO BE  
DROWNING.  I DEFINITELY THINK OF THE SECOND SIDE AS A DESCRIPTION OF WHAT 
IT MIGHT BE LIKE TO GET OVER A HEROIN HABIT.

        I think it's parallel to so many things, really--It's definitely 
going through an experience and coming out the other side and it's 
definitely not a pleasant experience.  I definitely find it very  
frightening, the whole concept of being in something so huge and it's  
night and you're alone [SMALL LAUGH].

     I can't really pinpoint it--perhaps from war films and people coming 
off boats, planes, into the water, and they're there all night, having 
already been through such terrible experiences.  And there they are, 
dumped in the middle of nothing.  Ooh, so many things that human beings 
went through in wartime--It's just incredible what people could do, even 
do to their own people.  Terrible.

        I like the whole idea, too, of being in water, and sensory 
deprivation--losing a complete sense of where you are, and then off goes 
your head: your body is left there, but your mind is travelling.  I think 
everyone gets these glimpses, moments, somewhere in your life when you 
experience something and you suddenly realise how you're taking it all 
for granted.  (1985, Hot Press)
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........................................................................
                                                        Peter Manchester
 "Watching storms form over America..."    pmanchester@ccmail.sunysb.edu
                                                72020.366@compuserve.com