Re: KaTe and grammar

[Richard Caley <rjc%edai.edinburgh.ac.uk@NSFNET-RELAY.AC.UK>]

>Really-From: adams%bosco.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Jeffrey P. Adams)

>I must admit, though, that it bothers me greatly to see professional
>users of English, Kate included, make fundamental mistakes of grammar

Prove it is a mistake - that is that she didn't realise _precicely_
what she was doing.

>and usage.  It also bothers me that so many people want to justify
>the perversion of formal rules of language.  
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Tee Hee. spot the Mathematician.

There _are_ no formal rules to language.

>Some people claim that
>"You and I like Kate" sounds stilted and unnatural, but "You and me
>like Kate" sounds OK.  To whom?  Certainly not to me.  

Then the problem lies with you. 

>It only sounds
>unnatural if you are uncomfortable speaking properly, and you convey
>this through your voice.  If you pay close attention, you'll notice
>that lots of people you know speak properly and it doesn't sound
>unnatural.

This I can agree with, but assuming that you would naturally say "You
and I . . ." then you will sound unnatural saying "You and me . . ."
Neither of these facts are evidnece for one form being "better" or "more
correct" than the other.

>It amuses me that many of these same people complain about exceptions
>to the rules of grammar, yet advocate creating many more such
>exceptions by making "street English" acceptable.

"Street English" is acceptable; if it were not it would not be spoken.
Now, it may not be acceptable to some people, that is what dialects are
all about. Anyone who tells you that one dialect is "better" or "more
correct" than another is selling snake oil.

Language is a tool. The use of language is a craft, the best craftsmen
raise it to an Art ( mentioning no names, but The Lady is very good ). 

If KT uses a phrase from a particular dialect then I think we can be
sure that there is a reason for that useage. This applies when the
dialect is a formalised "educated" one as much as when it is a more
normal one.

For instance in the early version of Kashka she uses the word "garbage"
I think that it is safe to say that she is trying to raise American
images. Should we casticate her for using incorrect English ( after all,
she is British and so this word _is_ incorrect, in the sence of net
being in the "educated" dialect ).

--
rjc@uk.ac.ed.edai	" It's a terrible habbit, quotes "
				- Mayland Long