Re: religious wars on love-hounds

[chrisw@miso.wwa.com (Chris Williams)]

rrosen@falcon.cc.ukans.edu (Goddess in Training) wrote:
>Well, there are plenty of references to English and Celtic folk music and 
>mythology, but that hardly would make her Pagan.

   Agreed. A lot of her interest in those areas has been due to her brothers
Paddy and Jay. She is several years younger than both, and they were playing
folk music as she grew up. It was her enviorment.

>I wouldn't call her a "believer"--I'd call her a sympathetic outsider, 
>perhaps.

   True enough. 

>Earlier you accused Pagans of prosthelytizing on love-hounds. And yet you 
>do the same thing for your atheistic/anti-religious beliefs. If you don't 
>like religion, don't be religious. But don't knock those with faith for 
>having faith, and I'll give you that same respect.

   I'm not an atheist (a word twisted and tossed around by the religious
to try to make a lack of religious beliefs into a religion) I'm agnostic.
I don't have any answers to the great questions of existence, but get
annoyed at the smugness of those that believe they do.

   But I take exception to the implication that I'm prosthelytizing. I 
only talk about it when the subject is brought up by others.

>It's not that inane when there is some Pagan and magickal imagery used in 
>her music, even if she doesn't believe in it or practice it herself 
>(which is what the evidence seems to point towards). I personally haven't 
>found any specifically *Wiccan* imagery in her works, but I have seen 
>some that refers to Pagan subjects, such as the reference to "Zeus" in 
>"The Kick Inside." Then again, Classical mythology has been used for 
>years in art and implies nothing in terms of belief.

   Actually, the _The Kick Inside_ is a re-write of a much older story "Lucy 
Wan". 

>Yes, it *should* be in the FAQ, but it could be put in there in a less 
>inflamatory way. Something to the effect of that there is no proof for 
>it, even though Kate does use some Pagan imagery in her music. 

   Heh...some of the answers in the FAQ are specifically intended 
to be inflamatory.

   Kate uses a wide range of imagery from every media and interest.

>>    All religions annoy me, but "Modern Paganisn" especially so, as there
>> is little excuse for it. Foolishness is forgivable. Willful foolishness isn't.
>> 
>And atheism isn't foolish? As someone who is Pagan (but *NOT* Wiccan), 
>statements such as these can't help but get a reaction from me.

   As above, I'm not an atheist. I'm an unrepentant rationalist...who has 
never been given any rational explanation to any of the "big questions";
the ones that believers insist must be accepted on "faith".

   "Faith" seems (to me) to be "Mommy logic". "Because I said so."

>I'm trying, though, to be civil, since I don't read love-hounds to debate 
>Paganism (I've got Pagan mailing lists and newsgroups to do that in:). I 
>really wish this subject would come to an end. I read love-hounds to 
>discuss Kate. Not Paganism. 

   As far as I'm concerned, this round is over.

>An occaisonal speculation on Kate's beliefs  is O.K. A discussion of 
>religious and magickal symbolism in Kate's lyrics  would be wonderful.

   In all the times the subject has come up, the believers has posted
large amounts of text. Sadly, they have *yet* to do the work of actually
correlating the symbolism to her lyrics. They've posted reams about,
for instance, Alister Crowley. But no specific correlations.

>There is no evidence that Kate is Wiccan or any sort of Pagan. I have my 
>hypotheses of what she is (I'm guessing ecclectic Christian, with some 
>interest in Cermonial Magick and/or Paganism but not necessarily a 
>pratcitioner of *any* religion), but since I have no proof, I don't go 
>around spouting them, although I might bring them up if asked and offer 
>my reaasons for mentioning them. But just because there is no evidence 
>that Kate is Pagan, doesn't mean you should insult all those who are 
>Pagan or who have any other religious beliefs. Of course if you go around 
>flaming people's belief systems and life styles, they will repsond 
>angrily. But this isn't the forum for it.

   You read what I posted. I'll stand by it.

   "Modern Paganism" seems to be the tattoo and nose ring of beliefs. If
I'm wrong about this, and it *you* haven't adopted this belief system to
shock, my apologies.