Re: Wait for Kate

[Robb McCaffree <nsrjm@nursepo.medctr.ucla.edu>]

ariel_b@pipeline.com (Ariel Brennan) wrote:
>
> On Jan 28, 1996 05:33:03 in article <Re: Wait for Kate>,
> 'nsrjm@nursepo.medctr.ucla.edu (Robb McCaffree)' wrote: 

>  
> Which all comes down to, you think Kate was an influence on Tori and
> therefore it must be true.  
>  
> >	The bridge on 'Watching		The bridge on 'Crucify 
> >	You Without Me'			(extremely similar) 
>
> I see absolutely, positively, NO similarities there. Ah well. 


Listen to this one, at least, again. If you still say no similarity,
then you've got to be, as an r.m.t-a'er told you "in denial."


	The parts of my last post you snipped are the key. Those
photos are so close it's ridiculous. And before you say that Tori
wasn't responsible, YKTR and LE were years apart, and had different
Art Directors.

>  
> What you're saying doesn't make much sense - just because you're familiar
> with both artists and see some similarity doesn't mean Tori was familiar
> with Kate and was influenced by her. Perhaps they simply came up with
> similar ideas - that happens with artists, especially when you're dealing
> with two singer-songwriters with similar voices and the same specialties
> (piano). (Which reminds me - you can't say she must've been influenced by
> Kate because she sings like her - that's just the way her voice sounds) 
>

	I see your point, but the similarities are far too similar for
me to buy a 'separately derived' scenario. I snipped your 'artists'
analogy, but it would be as if you painted 'Starry Starry Night' and
then smirked, "Van Gogh? Who's he?'
  
> Nothing Tori does is so uniquely Kate that it couldn't have come from
> anyone but her. It's been done by many other people. Perhaps Tori was
> simply influenced by someone who was influenced by Kate. Or perhaps their
> minds just work in a similar fashion. I wouldn't be surprised either way.  

	They were both somewhat influenced by Joni Mitchell -- who 
sounds very little like either. Somehow this equation doesn't work.

>  
> >Tori not only denies familiarity with Kate's stuff, she has 
> >insulted her outright ("I want to tell her to stop screaming...there's 
> >no mouse").  
>  
> That makes no sense- she can't say she wishes Kate would stop screaming if
> she's not familiar with Kate's work.  
>  

	I think you're very right, here. But she said these things, I
am simply repeating them. Perhaps she said she wasn't familiar with
Kate at an earlier time, I don't know.

>
> And the thing is, it's not just you - I've seen this arguement from so many
> Kate fans it drives me mad. I love Kate and Tori both, and I honestly see
> so little similarity that the insistance on the part of many Kate fans than
> Tori MUST have been heavily influenced by Kate and therefore she should
> admit it. Why not just believe the woman when she says no, she doesn't
> consider Kate to be a big influence? She's got no reason to lie, and she's
> the only one who'd know for sure. 

	I've seen it from Kate fans, Tori fans and people who don't
care about either. Kate's voice and music were so stunningly original
when she debuted, that there was nothing with which to compare it. But
when Tori debuted, her voice could sound so similar, that the Kate
comparisons were constant. Reviewers couldn't write about LE without
the words Kate Bush figuring somewhere in the review. What's really
interesting is that these comparisons are never made to YKTR, which
failed miserably. But when Tori rallied and came up with this 'new'
(ha) style, suddenly she was marketed like Kate, photographed like
Kate, and frankly, I think she courted it -- at least at first. This
would give her plenty of reason to slough off the comparisons, and the
influence. 

	In another post, you said you saw some similarities on your
initial listen to BfP, but that they'd 'faded' and you didn't even
remember which passages those were. You said that Kate ranked next to
Sarah McLauchlin(?) in sounding Tori-like. I've gotta ask, really?
You don't think the vocals-and-piano only portion of "Professional
Widow" sounds more like Kate than...well perhaps even Kate herself?

	I already know your answer -- so perhaps it is best just to
defuse the situation by agreeing to disagree. You think I'm being
bullheaded in seeing a similarity that isn't there -- and I think
you're being equally bullheaded in denying that there's no connection
or similarity whatsoever. Soon, someone's bound to add: "Who cares and
shutup already!" So I will.  :-)

Robb