Re: Tarot

[pwh@bradley.bradley.edu (Pete Hartman)]

chrisw@fciad2.bsd.uchicago.edu (chris williams) writes:
>    I usually don't concern myself too much about how Kate would view
>our projects, but the Tarot cards are an especially bad idea. There
>are two possible ways Kate could view this. Either:

While I recognize that you have quite a bit more insight into the
mind of KaTe than many of us Chris, I don't think you're being
very clear-minded here.

>  Kate believes in Tarot: The idea of seeing a tarot deck featuring
>herself as all the cards. Oh, that would be nice. I presume this would
>include Death. Great, especially considering the number of close friends
>of her's who have died in recent years, and the trauma of the death of
>her mother.

If she believes in the Tarot, then she knows that the Death card
does not mean LITERAL death, but rather change.  In fact, the worst
of the trumps is definitely not Death, but rather The Tower (well
I suppose that's my interpretation of the worst, but it agrees with
most of what I've read.  And in any case, my comments on Death are
not based on my beliefs, but on what every person and book I've
ever had reason to get tarot information from has said).

>  Kate does not believe in Tarot: I don't hold out much hope for this
>possibility (especially with the pernicious influence of "Lily" in her
>life) but if she does not, she would be deeply offended.

Why?  Just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean you
are antithetically opposed to it.  I would think a deck of tarot
cards with pictures of me on them would be bizarre, but unless I
were a hard-core skeptic (such as those who bash Reich at every
opportunity) I wouldn't be *offended*, much less "deeply offended".
I'd say that Kate's willingness to sing about Reich is more
telling about her potential response to this project than her
influence from "Lily".

>							Of course a
>real believer would be equally offended by an "ancient art" being
>perverted in this way.

Perhaps you should do some research on what those who "believe" in
the Tarot really think.

Yes, a believer would be offended by just throwing together a bunch
of Kate photos and calling it a Tarot deck, but you may have noted
that those of us who take this at all seriously (I wouldn't say I'm
a "believer" outright, but I don't discount them outright either)
are determined not to let it be so poorly done (if it is done).

If believers were so easily offended, then the creation of the Tarot
of the Witches for that James Bond film would have doomed that deck to
extinction.  Instead, it's still being sold for quite a bit more than
most other decks.

I may have given the impression that the symbology is fixed; I thought
I had backpedalled from that already, but in case I haven't:  it is not
fixed.  There are more different decks than I could even start to count,
and nearly as many schools of symbology.  The weirdest deck I ever saw
was a round deck with hand-drawn pictures of various fruits and vegetables
and things on it (and maybe other household items, I didn't see the entire
deck), nothing at all like a "traditional" deck.  But I don't recall
anyone being offended by it.

>Karen wrote:
>>Far from being an impossible task, it is very tangible:  we have a group 
>>of people interested, it would be fun, and we are entirely capable of 
>>organizing ourselves for such a project.  We do tapetrees, don't we?
>    Sorry Karen, but it's hardly a fair comparison. The original tapes
>were produced by one person in one long night. The tapes were then
>duplicated by a group of people, a job that required altruism and
>dedication, but not artistic skill (not that the tapetree tapes exhibit
>that much skill.)

This, I think, is a telling point.  The project sounds wonderful (to
those who are interested in the Tarot at least), but it would be a much
more involved task than has been done before.  Not to say I think
it won't happen, but it isn't going to be as easy as enthusiasm may
make it seem.

>   The tapetree got something that everyone wanted into people's hands
>without much muss or bother. It all happened in the background via
>e-mail. It would be nice if the tarot-people would show the same
>courtesy. Stev0's t-shirts are another good example of a sucessful
>project. A few posts to let people know the status of the project.

Another good point.  Is someone willing to set up a mailing list for
discussing this project?

>    It's fairly common for "true believers" to wish others to share
>their beliefs. But, every time this sort of spirtualism stuff crops up
>on gaffa it's a fairly small core group using the opportunity to proselytize,
>and to ascribe to Kate their own beliefs. The old "Well, Kate is
>*obviously* a witch!!" nonsense. 

Bullshit, Chris.  I haven't seen one person talking about the Tarot
trying to proseletyze OR assuming that Kate is into the Tarot.

>   Re the specifics of the project as a project; the idea of many
>different people working all around the world will not produce a
>artistic work. A project like this would have to be produced by one
>very motivated person, or a close group. Anything else will probably
>produce work of variable quality.

Another telling point.

>		Why don't those interested just get together via e-mail
>rather than cluttering up Love-Hounds with material that is of little
>interest to most, and deeply offensive to some of us.

Understood.  Just don't project your offense onto others, such as
Kate.
-- 
Pete Hartman		       Bradley University	pwh@bradley.bradley.edu
                                You'll have that