Attitude and Respect

[vickie@chinet.chi.il.us (Vickie Ann Mapes)]

Vickie here. OK, so I can't shut up.

Mr Caldwell writes:

> Oh please.  You people are every bit as cynical as anyone
> else here.  Yeah, you talk sweetness and light and pour out your
> hearts for all of the horrible cynics to smirk at.  But underneath 
> all the sugar frosting you're just as prone to questioning people's 
> motives, intentions or nature as anyone here.   

Oh yeah, you bet. You've given me just as much fodder as I've given you.
Why are our emotions "sweetness, light and sugar frosting" to you? It would
almost seem that adults aren't supposed to have emotions nowadays.

> You doubt the people who look at things from a fundamentally different 
> point of view.  For you it's not possible that they are perfectly
> reasonable people who simply see things differently, they have to
> be anti-hero cynics who are courting some sort of fashion.

No, I have no problems with people who have different points of view.
_Attitude_ is what I was referring to. Attutude and respect toward other
people, what they do, how they feel, who they are and how they react.

And I do think that in this era it's fashionable to be an anti-hero
cynic. It's everywhere and I'm constantly running into it. 

> By now you should be well aware that I have just as much affection 
> and admiration for Kate as any of you.  I also have a great deal 
> of respect for Kate and out of respect for her I keep all of that in
> perspective.   She doesn't want or need us kissing her feet and she 
> wouldn't mind someone speaking up from time to time to remind you
> people that she's got a few corns.

I don't think that Kate needs us kissing her feet either. Pointing out
mistakes, faults and foibles is one thing, but why do you (and others)
feel the need to talk about them in such a cynical, hateful manner? You
can say what you like, any way you like, simply because Kate is not a
reader of this newsgroup. Would/Do you speak to people you know like
that? Face to face? Would you rattle off your "The Sensual Suspension
of Gaffa" theories if Kate were standing right in front of you? It *would*
probably make for a fascinating conversation, since you did bring up a
lot of interesting points that could very well be true. BUT, my whole post
concerned respect for other people's feelings and emotions. Would you, if
you were talking to Kate about your theory, speak in the same cynical,
scorning manner that you used in your post? Would you? Would you tell her to
"Sniff your boxed set and smell the answer, Kate". If, as you say, you 
really do have respect for Kate, why not treat her that way. Not as a god,
not as a hero, but as a human being with feelings and emotions, just trying
to continue her art at a time when there were many, many personal problems
vying for her attentions. Have respect for her, in the same way you would
any other human being, be they a family member or the grocer down the street.

> It's easy to have a god as a hero.  They're perfect.  You don't
> have to account for their faults.  Try having a human being as a
> hero for a change.  You'll find it not quite as easy, but much
> more rewarding.

*You* are the one who is forgetting that Kate is a human being. I've never
forgotten it. If you think that I'm one of those "Kate can do no wrong"
people then you haven't paid very much attention to my posts over the
past couple of years. There are things she's done that I can't stand.
Chopping up "Be Kind To My Mistakes" is one thing that I really disagree
with. It was a bad decision for her to make, IMHO. The difference between
us is that I take into account the fact that she *is* a human being and
doesn't always do what I want her to do. *I* realize that she's under no
obligation to please me, and my tastes in music. You and others seem to
think that, just because you weren't happy with TSW, she's offended you
in some way. So you treat her with scorn and say "blah blah blah _That_ is
the Kate that I am looking forward to hearing from on the next album." Who
are *you* to tell her what to do or how to run her life or her art? 

You have the same sort of problems with people like Jorn and I who are
emotional beings and tend to write that way sometimes. You can't just
accept the fact that, though we may well be wrong or misguided sometimes,
it's how we feel. It's easier for you to put us into the category of "Kate
can do no wrongoids" and blast us, than to just skip over our posts.

You see it as a given that TWS is a "bad" album, so first you tell Jorn
he's "rationalizing" with his Catherine post, then *you* rationalize 
yourself with your own post. If there is something "different" about TWS,
perhaps it's a combination of reasons that you AND Jorn hit upon. No one
knows for sure. Only Kate knows. Your post is no more or less valid than
Jorn's. All we can do is take TSW as is, like it (which I do) or dislike
it (which you do) and wait to see what she comes up with next. 

In the meantime, we should treat her like the human being she is. Not as
a god (which you wrongly think Jorn and I do) or as an unfeeling non-entity
(which you come off doing) to be treated with scorn when she doesn't
please you. 

    "It's really sad that pressures are put on some musicians. It's
  essential for them to be human beings, because that's where all
  the creativity comes from, and if it's taken away from them and
  everybody starts kneeling and kissing their feet and that, they're
  gonna grow in the wrong areas."
                                -- Kate Bush

       "Be kind to my mistakes"
                                -- Kate Bush

There's a reasonable middle ground here. I've found it, maybe you should.


Vickie
katefans@chinet.chi.il.us