MTV raw footage interview

[rhill@pnet01.cts.com (Ronald Hill)]

    85. MTV: Kate is interviewed by J. J. Jackson for the U.S. cable
rock-video channel.
       An additional generic interview, nearly one hour long, is
shot, and very brief excerpts are aired on MTV. November 1985.
     Mr. Jackson's questions are necessarily superficial but are
very deftly posed, and Kate seems a bit more at ease and more
forthcoming than in the other U.S. interviews. The questioner for the longer,
largely unaired interview draws remarkably interesting answers.

[Transcribed by Ronald Hill, above note by IED.  Thanks to Ed Suranyi for
providing me with the tape.  I am not sure if the actual interview is J. J.
Jackson, as the voice sounds different.  Kinda a depressed, bored sounding
voice!]

[Kate getting prepared for the start of the interview.]

        I: Let's go all the way back to your childhood, rather than the other
way around.  [Kate Laughs]  But, we'll see..  Let's just do how it's scripted
out.. Alright... [Start of interview]  So what's different about this new
album, as opposed to all the other ones, how is it a progression? 

        K: I think one of the biggest differences is that we recorded it in
our own studio.  That made a very big difference to me, it's probably one of
the best decisions I've ever made.  

        I: Ok, now, this studio... This is like right in your home or what? 
And what do you have to do to build one of these things, does it take years,
does it cost millions of pounds?  What's the story behind it? 

        K: Yeah, it cost a lot of money.  [Coughs]  You gotta find the right
place. [Coughs twice]. 

        I: Can you start again? 

        K: I'd like to, please, yeah. 

        I: And you know, if want, just for instance, "When I built the studio
it cost me a lot of money."  You know, you could like bring up the end of my
question to the beginning of your response.  

        K: Do you want me to do that? 

        I: Yeah, I sorta would prefer it, because it makes it easier for us to
cut a piece out of it.  

        K: I see, yeah.  Ok, I'll try.  [Smiles]

        I: Yeah, you know you don't have to do it every time.  But if you
think of it. 

        K: Uh, huh. 

        I: That would be good.  And in fact, I might ask you to say things
again if I see that it's coming out in a way that might not work that well on
TV.  It's one of the things that we have to do.  

        K: Great.  No, that sorta helps me really.

        I: Just sit back and don't worried about it, just talk and it'll be
good.

        K: Thanks.  

        I: Alright.  We were talking about the studio, right?  And you're
gonna tell me like what it was like to build it and what you want built. 

        K: Yeah.  One of the main reasons for wanting to build our own studio
was the amount of money that it was costing in a commercial studio per hour. 
And when you work experimentally it actually becomes prohibitive when it's
costing that amount of money.  Plus the distractions.  So you've gotta find a
place, and you gotta get the best equipment in there that you can that you can
afford because [phone rings loudly] obviously it's very expensive stuff.  

[Kate smiles.  Phone rings again.  Tape cuts.]

        I: Can you see was that a wig, was it Memorex [Kate smiles] , what was
it because...

[Tape cuts again.]

        Tech: We're ready anytime you want to. 

        I: This studio's jinxed now, because the phone rings and everything
stops.  So, I mean, you have the studio and everything, and it was help make
it easier, but what about the subject matter.  Do you feel that these songs
are about different things then songs on your previous album.  

        K: Yes, I think the last album was quite an intense album.  I think it
was about emotion and there were alot of things that I wanted to say that I
wasn't happy with.  I was feeling mankind to be cruel, negative.  And I think
I expressed that in a lot of the songs.  For this album there's a completely
different energy.  I moved from the city to the country.  I was surrounded by
elemental forces which I really feel feature on this album.  And I was feeling
really happy and positive,  and considering mankind to be much better than on
the last album.  So I think it... it's got a more positive energy.  

        I: That kinda weird that you say that, because especially on the first
side all the songs are so pessimistic, these songs about people who just
cannot communicate.

        K: On this album? 

        I: Yes.  

        K: But I think it's actually finding a way for them to communicate, if
they can't.  The positive side is that they find a way to, and if they don't
then there's the hope that they can.

        I: Ok, so then Running Up That Hill is just the beginning of a whole
cycle? 

        K: [Long pause]  How do you mean?  

        I: Well, cause I mean that is like a really pessimistic thing.  I
mean, two people wanting to switch places like that.  Saying "if you could
feel what I feel now, then what?"

        K: But why is it pessimistic though, why is it not positive to want to
experience what the other person feels?  For me, it's a positive thing, it's
saying that they can get rid of the problems, or they want to, they care
enough about each other to want to do that.  

        I: Ok, great.  So on this side then... we got the optimist... What
caused you to write lyrics though like "You never understood me, you never
really tried."  Is it some personal experience? 

        K: I think everyone at some times feels misunderstood.  But I can't
think of any song that I would say was truly autobiographical.  There's
something of me in every song, in that I'm expressing something I'm hoping is
interesting.  But I don't think they're truly autobiographical comments in any
way. 

        I: Ok.  I have written here "what's Cloudbusting about?" 

        K: Well Cloudbusting was inspired by a book that I found in a shop
about nine years ago, it's out of print now.  Written by a guy called Peter
Reich, and it's called A Book Of Dreams.  And it's very unusual, beautiful
book, written by this man through the eyes of himself when he was a child,
looking at his father, and the relationship between them.  Very special
relationship, his father meant so much to him.  His father was a
psychoanalyst, very respected, but he also had a machine that could make it
rain, and the two of them would go out together and they would make it rain. 
And in the book there was such a sense of magic,  that it a way the rain was
almost a presence of his father.  Unfortunately, its a very sad book in that
the peak of it is where his father was arrested, taken away from him, because
of his beliefs he's considered a threat.  And it's how the child has to cope
from that point onwards without his father.  And the song is really using the
rain as something the reminds the son of his father.  Every time it rains
instead of it being very sad and lonely, it's a very happy moment for him,
it's like his father is with him again.  

        I: Yes, his father's Wilhelm Reich, right?  [Kate nods]  Hmm, good. 
And in the video, was it easy for you to portray a child?  

        K: I think it's something I'd obviously worried about.  When you're
not a child there are lots of things that could be a problem.  Like I could
look old and not young.  And we were also [coughs] - excuse me - trying to
take away the feminine edge so that in a way I could be a tomboy rather than a
little girl.  Trying to keep the thing as innocent as possible.  And I think
rather than being that worried about playing a child, I was just worried about
the whole process of acting, because it's something I've not really done, in a
true sense.  I've preformed in lots of ways, but not really acted.  And it was
something that I was wary of and I was actually surprised at how much I
enjoyed it. 

        I: Well that's what everyone around the office is saying, for
instance, like saying "well she should play Tess the Dervervilles" this
English classic.  [Kate stiffels a laugh]  I mean is this something that you
are really considering doing now? 
        K: Acting? 

        I: Yeah, acting more.  

        K: It's nothing that has ever really been a strong desire for me.  I
mean, never at any point in my life have I wanted to be an actress.  But if
there was something offered that was interesting enough, I would certainly
want to do it, yes. 

        I: Ok, good.  Let's get back to the video then.  How'd you get Donald
Sutherland to be in it? 

        K: Really lucky.  The brief, really from the start, was that I wanted
a great actor to play the father.  I wanted it to be a piece of film rather
than a video promotional clip.  I wanted it to be a short piece of film that
would hopefully do justice to the original book.  And let people understand
the story that couldn't really be explained in the song.  So we wanted a great
actor.  We though of Donald Sutherland and though "well, chances are we won't
get him, but why not try?"  So we found a contact and explained the story and
sent the script to him, and he was interested in doing it.  And just happened
to have the days free when we were shooting.  So, um, pretty incredible
really! 

        I: So what was he like? 

        K: Fantastic!  Really professional, really patient, and an incredible
help to me.  In my debut acting role I had a pretty good actor opposite me. 
And he was so encouraging and made it so easy for me.  I mean, whenever we
were acting, he was my father.  I just had to react to him like child.  He
made it very easy.  

        I: Great.  Who directed the video and where was it shot?  I think the
setting of its really beautiful. 

        K: It is a beautiful place.  It's the Veil of The White Horse, in
England.  And the director was Julien Doyle. 

        I: And tell us more about Julien Doyle.  

        K: Julien Doyle...  [Kate looks over.  The tape cuts.  Kate laughs.  A
voice in the background goes "sorry about that".  Kate coughs then looks
around and smiles real big!  Who need art when you've got Kate Bush smiles?]

        I: .. we've been talking about Julien Doyle and where he's from and
what he's done and how you met him.

        K: I'm a big fan of Terry Gilliam, I don't know if you know him,
suburb director.  And I was interested in working with him and he put me in
touch will Julien, who works with Terry on his movies.  He's a cameraman and
this was really his first role as director.  Terry was involved with the
storyboard as well, and this is how I met Julien.  
        We spent a lot of time on this video and what was nice was the way
that everyone became so concerned with the story and also concerned with
giving justice to it.  You know everyone wanted it to be something special.  

        I: Why is it set in the fifties?

        K: Because of the book.  That's the time that it happened to the boy. 
He was about twelve...

        I: Ok, in this question you "Because of the book, The Book Of Dreams
that it's based on..." Ok? 

        K: Yeah.  It's because A Book Of Dreams, that it's based on, was
actually at that time, in the fifties, that his father was taken from him.  He
was about twelve.  [Kate makes an "I hope I got that right" look]

        I: And that's really it, you just took the exact time from the book?

        K: Yes, I think also it made it more interesting.  It's not totally
accurate to the fifties and I think that in itself is important.  We wanted to
create a sense of -  no certain time.  I think it's more interesting in way
when it could be any time.  But also by not making it contemporary time you
get a big sense of nostalgia, of something that has happened in the past.  So
I think visually it was a very good combination.

        I: How did you make that machine? 

        K: Well the book very little details of what the actual machine looked
like.  But from what I could gather the reality of the machine wouldn't look
right.  ON screen it's got to be exaggerated.  So it was trying to design
something that would look powerful and possible of doing it but that wouldn't
be comical, because we didn't people to laugh at it, we wanted people to be
astounded by the machine.  So it was really designing something that was a
cross between an Akatan [???] gun and a pipe organ.  I just felt that it had
to have these huge funnels that would reach to the sky and could be moved
around.  And the whole thing should be rotatable.  And so we worked with some
designers that worked on the Alien and I think it looked pretty good.  

        I: It looks great.  Is this the first video where you're not dancing? 

        K: No, but it's quite a departure.  I have done a couple of others
that again we were trying to treat like piece of film, but we were using lip
sync or something like that.  And we were working on video as well, which
makes it quite different.  

        I: How come there are two Running Up That Hill clips.  Well you should
probably tell us what they are.  But why is that?  Did you actually make them
both and authorize them both?  

        K: No, I think what's happened here is your seeing a TV performance
that we did in England to promote the single.  And I don't do very many TV
performances.  It concerns me that to try and to do everything you can and put
as much effort into it, and sometimes its very difficult to make things look
good in TV situations.  But that was a live TV and we presented it that way
for the British audience.  It wasn't my intention that that clip would be
shown anywhere else at all, apart from that one live performance in England. 
And it was something that the record company wanted to use here, and that's
why you're seeing that.  From my point of view, the expression visually that
goes with that song is the film that we made that is the dance video.  And the
other one is really for me just a one-off TV.

        I: Well who are you dancing with in the dance version and who directed
that one? 

        K: The director of that was a guy called David Garfath and the dancer
was a guy called Michael Hervieu, who we auditioned.  We wanted to do a piece,
a serious piece of dance.  Over the last couple of years, all the videos I
seen, dance has become a very exploited thing and hasn't really been treated
seriously.  It's been used to sorta be accessories [makes broad motion with
hands] around the person who's starring in the film.  And we thought it would
be nice to do almost a classical piece of dance, filmed as well as possible,
because it's very rarely filmed well now.  In fact, the only well filmed piece
of dance I think I've ever seen was [???? anybody know who she's talking about
here???] and I think that's because she was so involved in it that it was so
good.  So that's  what we wanted to do, a nice serious piece of dance, simple,
well-filmed and give dance a chance in a real way in this pop world. 

        I: I like the masks, I liked the scenes with the masks.  How did you
think those up? 

        K: Well that was very much a coincidence, where the director was
talking about these masks and I had a film on video that we'd taped that had a
section where people were wearing these photographic masks.  And we just felt
that it was a really interesting idea, this crowd that would suddenly sorta
rush in through the dance sequence.  And the idea of the crowd being the force
of either the man or the woman and so the faces change from the man to the
woman.  And then the idea of drowning in yourself.    Just sorta those kinda
plays on things.  

        I: Ok, good. Now everyone says side two of the album is all about
someone drowning, is that true? 

        K: I'd say it was more about someone not drowning.  They're in the
water for the night...

        I: Okay, Okay, that's the thing.  You should start by saying "Even
though alot of people say side two is about drowning..."

        K: Okay, uh huh.  I think, even though a lot of people say that the
side is about someone drowning, it's more about someone who's not drowning. 
And how they're there for the night in the water being visited by their past,
present, and future to keep them awake, to keep them going through until the
morning until there's hope.  [Big smile]

        I: Alright.  Is there going to be like a whole video film based on
that side? 

        K: That's something that I like the idea of trying, but it's all talk
and no more.  And talk to action is a big leap, so I don't know. 

        I: OK.  Who's ... This is like scattering around a bit, but why
not?... Who's the band in TV performance.  Like who are the members of it?  Is
that the band you perform with?  Are those people on the album? 

        K: When you say the TV performance, you mean of Running Up That Hill?

        I: Running Up That Hill?

        K: Alot of them are musicians that were on the album and others were
people that we had to call in because, for instance, the Fairlight part I
played on the record, but visually it just looked better if I was singing.  So
we had someone on the keyboards.  And a few of them were in the band when we
toured in '79.  

        I: Alright.  I like that part with the bow and arrow at the end by the
way. 

        K: Do you? 

        I: It's really striking.  Something you thought of at the moment? 

        K: It's a kind of thread that's been running through that song.  The
cover of the single is using a bow and arrow.  In the video at the end there's
a section where there's an invisible bow. [Imitates end of video and laughs] 
So it was just the kind of thing that kept occurring and I thought it would to
fun to... live television with an audience just taking out a bow and arrow,
makes people go [makes whoa movement] for a minute and maybe that's a good
thing.

        I: Uh, huh.  That looks real good.  Have you ever toured? 

        K: Yes. 

        I: Will you ever tour again?  Will you ever come to America  and play
a tour, play at various places? 

        K: I'd really like to tour again and the one tour I did in '79,
England and Europe, was really exhausting.  We rehearsed it for maybe six
months and by the time we got around to the first night, I was really looking
forward to having an audience out there so that you could how you see how they
would react, see if they liked it.  It was really a lot of fun and in many
ways very educational for me as a performer as well as a person.  But it's the
commitment, it's so much time and effort.  And I just don't know if it's
something I want to launch into.  It'd probably be a year out, at least.  

[A voice says "We have to change tape."  Tape cuts into Kate and the
interviewer talking about the Running Up That Hill videos.]

        I: ... they show the live performance.  

        K: Do they?

        I: They show it alot. 

        K: Hmm.  That's interesting.

        I: It's been shown alot.

        K: Hmmm.  So would you say that the dance one has ever been shown? 

        I: I don't know.  [Kate Laughs].  I don't know. [Kate laughs again]  I
don't know if it's ever been shown.

        K: [Laughs more]  Great.  That's really interesting.

        I: [Back to asking questions]  Did you start out dancing before you
became a singer? 

        K: No, when I um... I left school at ah... I was about sixteen,
seventeen.  And I actually left school with the decision that I wanted to
throw myself into the world of music and [swings arm] go forth and get into
it.  And I felt that I had to work in order to find a way in.  And I took up
dance really to sorta fill up the day, give me some kind of discipline, and a
way to get to meet people and become independent.

        I: Really, like does it take a lot of time?  Do you work out a lot? 
What has it done for you?  

        K: It did an incredible amount, especially when I started back then. 
I had a recording contract, but I didn't know when I was going to be making
the first album, and I had, in a way, time to kill and use until that point. 
And I had very little experience...  certainly the business, I mean coming
straight from school.  And I had almost two clear years of going to the dance
school, learning to dance, getting more control over my body, and writing. 
Just using the time generally as a kind of foundation for what was to happen
next when the album was released and the single was very successful.  I think
without having used the time like that, things could've been very different
for me.  I was very lucky.  

        I: Do you choreograph all the clips then?  Like Sat In Your Lap and
Suspended In Gaffa and Wuthering Heights, those all are your choreography?

        K: Yes, and those ones that you mentioned particulary.  I worked with
a chirographer when we toured and I was using two dancers and he was involved
with integrating the routines between the three of us.  And the Running Up
That Hill dance performance, I worked with a lady chirographer called Dianne
Grey, and I really enjoyed that.  It was really exciting to work with someone
else and get that feedback.  And her experience with my sorta non-technical
ideas were a very good combination, we had a lot of fun.  

        I: Where did you shoot some of these?  Like Suspended In Gaffa it's
like in a barn or something.  Are these all sound stages or do you use
locations? 

        K: Yes, they're all stages and extremely good designers.  

[Second half tommorrow]

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