No Subject

[usenet@ames.arc.nasa.gov]

Path: lll-winken!das!ed
From: ed@das.llnl.gov (Edward Suranyi)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gaffa
Subject: Re: Jon Drukman's Theories
Date: 11 Oct 89 16:39:52 GMT
References: <8910111532.AA06700@ariel.unm.edu>
Sender: usenet@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV
Reply-To: ed@das.UUCP (Edward Suranyi)
Organization: Dept. of Applied Science, UC Davis at LLNL
Lines: 58


>Really-From: Lazlo Nibble <lazlo@ariel.unm.edu>
>
>
>1939 was not 1989, Ed.  There was no television, and no real concept of
>"mass media" at the time.  If you didn't read the newspaper or watch
>the newsreels it would be very possible to get through life in Europe
>in 1939 without having the slightest idea what Hitler looked like, and
>without being "stupid" because of it.  Even if you *had* seen the man
>once or twice in the paper, it is *also* more than possible to have met
>him is person without recognizing him . . . "You don't look anything
>like your picture!" syndrome.
>
>Hitler wasn't the internationally-known lunatic and mass murderer then
>that he is today.  He was barely getting started.
>

I agree that Hitler was not yet known to be a lunatic and mass murderer.
However, I stand by my conviction that anybody who had the slightest
education knew of him and what he looked like.  He became internationally
famous at the time of the Beer Hall Putsch in the late 20's, and by
the time he became dictator of Germany in 1933, he was undoubtedly
the most well-known man in Europe.  His name was without question in the
newspaper every day for six years before 1939, and his picture appeared
regularly too.  If the protaganist (let's call her KT) looked in
the newspaper the day after the dance, and saw his picture, why didn't
she look in the paper any day before that, going back many years, and
see his picture?  Are you suggesting that the day after the dance just
happened to be the first time KT looked in a newspaper in years?  It
still seems to me that the choice is between her being very stupid
or obtusely ignorant.

My mother was from a very small village in Hungary.  She was only two
in 1939, but I have not the slightest doubt that her parents were very
aware of Hitler and how he looked, and that they greatly feared him,
in fact.  I know this from many conversations with them.  Don't
forget that many of the anti-Jewish laws were passed by 1936, well
before the start of the war.

Apparently, Kate got the idea from a similar incident that occurred
with Dr. Oppenheimer.  That's much more believable.  It's easy to
believe that someone wouldn't recognize him.  I'm a physicist, and
even I'm not sure what he looked like, offhand.

There is only one somewhat reasonable explanation.  Perhaps KT
*did* know what Hitler looked like from pictures, but he looked
sufficiently different in real life that she didn't recognize
him.  Never having seen Hitler in real life myself, I couldn't
say how likely this is.  However, as everyone knows, Hitler's
appearance was quite distinctive.

The song is wonderful, and expresses a very interesting, terrifying idea.
I just don't believe it could ever actually have happened.


Ed (Edward Suranyi)
Dept. of Applied Science, UC Davis/Livermore
ed@das.llnl.gov
It appears that I now can get UUNET to work. So feel free to write to me.