Re: Homophobia (Was: Oh by the way)

[K Bacon <s340090@student.uq.edu.au>]

At 06:42 25/10/97 +0200, you wrote:

>I think everyone should be given the freedom to think what they want.
>As for interpreting songs, I believe that a songwriter have a specific
>interpretation in mind when writing the lyrics. I think of it as a game
>like "guess my interpretation". Back in the 'good old days' when I too
>had a band, I made some songs. (Not that any of them ever came close to
>the standards of the preferences of fellow Love-Hounds...)
>One of my songs told a story about a half-sadistic freeway-construction 
>worker about to demolish a house with an excavator.
>If I heard anyone interpreting the song as promoting sadistic behaviour,
>I would be deeply offended. Nor do I like the idea of thinking
>people interpreting it as an OK to use violence as means to oppose
>local-governmental decisions.

I'm not arguing about whether the writer has an intention in mind when they
write a song - of course they do!  I just believe that people should be
allowed to (and will anyway) interpret the song as they want.  In reference
to your song, I just feel that it's tough luck to you how listeners
interpret it...I reinforce the idea the the song 'has a life of it's own'.
If a writer (or listener) doesn't like the way a song is interpreted, then
too bad...you can't control what others feel and think about a specific song.  


>I think you missed at least on of the points in the posts concerning gays.
>At least _I_ read irony in the statement "aaahahahaha...". 
>Ok, I agree that it was not a nice thing to say.
>But then again, when 'important' thoughts, feelings, and ideas occupy your 
>thoughts very much, you often start to incorporate those ideas into the
>interpretation of your perceptions. 

I disagree with the second part of this.  You are saying that I am likely to
"incorporate" my feelings into my judgements - of course I am (thus I agree
with your first part of the statement).  However, in the second part, you
are arguing against yourself...*of course* you have to be aware of
homophobia (or sexism etc.) to notice it in the first place!!  Do you expect
people who are unaware about the subtle influence of homophobia to actually
pick it up!?!  It HAS to be people like me, who look out for these type of
issues, to comment on them.  Consider the statement "I don't say something,
who will??".  

>I don't believe any of the postings in this subject are homophobical,
>other than in your view, Kim.
>Being homophobic is bad, but you should be careful when
>labelling people. Being anti-homophobic could be just as bad.

Obviously I can apply the reverse to you!  You said above that I noticed it
because of my 'important' views...well I'm saying that you *didn't* notice
it because you AREN'T as aware of the problem.  There's no way that I'd
possiblity agree that being 'anti-homophobic' (ie. not believing in treating
gay people equally) could be as bad as being homophobic.  Some of these
posts ARE implicitly homophobic...check your email for the one sent by 'Dan
the Kitti man' on Oct 7, where he totally rubbishes and ridicules even the
concept of someone interpreting the song as 'coming out' (of the closet).
His words were 'unfuckingbelievable'.  Do you (and 'Dan' for that matter)
think that we have to feel exactly the same about a song as YOU do?  I stand
firmly by my view that if someone wants to imagine that it relates to being
gay, or about growing up, or about their own relationship with a father/care
giver, or coming out of prison (as I said before, I also sometimes think
that 'Cloudbusting' refers closely to the Guildford Four (In the Name of the
Father)) then that's totally normal, and should be encouraged.  

>There is a difference between 'what a song means to me' and
>'what a song is about' (as in 'what is the story the song is telling').
>And that difference is to me quite clear, because many of Kate's songs
>really ARE short stories. As was my own "Excavator" song.

Well...I know what you mean, but I still think it is becoming a game of
semantics.  Look at Cloudbusting itself - it is NOT a specific song and
gives very few details about the background of the song.  Therefore, is it
really telling a story?  A specific story??  Even if you read between the
lines, it would be highly unlikely that a listener could guess what
'Cloudbusting' is about, and what Kate was thinking.  
        I feel the essential point that you have missed, is that every
individual still interprets the 'telling' of a story differently (before you
even get to the 'means to me' stage!!).  This is proven in psychology...I
remember a case where a short video was shown to a group of people, and they
*all* thought it was a slightly different story!!  Amazing, but true (and
common).  Even if an event is incredibly black and white...people *still*
interpret it differently.  There is no such thing as absolute truth!!
(Amongst humans anyway - I'm not refering to those ppl on this list who
believe in a higher being etc..).  The point is - the 'telling of a story'
already means something different for everyone, before you even get to the
'what it means to me' stage.  

Thanking all for taking the time to read my views :))
Kim