Re: beauty, meaning, and other things out of fashion...

[Alex Gibbs <arg@kilimanjaro.opt-sci.Arizona.EDU>]

wagreiner@ucdavis.edu writes:
->In article <9402181810.AA20536@dlsun87.us.oracle.com> jdrukman%dlsun87@us.oracle.com (Jon Drukman) writes:
->>Wade writes:
->>
->>>Well, I guess we all have our opinions on "the good old days" of
->>>music.  Personally, I think it all started to go downhill with the

Yeah, my opinion is I can't see a "good old days of music"; I want to
see where it keeps going.  That *doesn't* mean I don't appreciate past
music, but I don't want to be stuck with old styles, instruments,
etc forever.

->>>album that has had the largest negative impact in popular music
->>>history: Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band.  After all, that was
->>>the album which, it seems to me started the trend towards
->>>substituting tape effects and cutting and pasting for the ability to
->>>perform musically.

Are you suggesting that music shouldn't use new instruments and
technology (which essentially creates new instruments and ways to make
music)?  I'd loathe seeing musicians stuck with the same old tools to
create music.  The magic is to be talented at using both the old and
the new, and even making the new.  (ex The Dreaming)

->>>I mean without Sgt. Peppers would we have had to
->>>deal with the likes of Yes, Pink Floyd, ELP, Genesis, and all that
->>>art rock stuff?

Art rock is bad?  Which part is bad, art or rock?  Are they only bad
together?  Oh the creativity of it all!  Someone save us!

->My point about the connection between Sgt. Peppers and Yes, etc., was
->just that after Sgt. Peppers the emphasis in a lot of pop music moved
->away from putting together good songs and performances to putting together
->"concept" albums.  I think the "concept" album led to horrible excesses

Just like all those horrible classical "concept" operas.  Yes, some
(my guess is a lot) of them were bad too, but some were great, just as
with concept albums.  I think an ideal masterpiece is great as an
entirety and as it's miriad of components.  Its even greater when the
top level is the whole album, and not just the great songs it contains.
Yes, some fail but the successes are magnificent.

->Sgt. Peppers also accelerated the trend of making 
->records in which the performers don't play at the same time (the gross
->practice of laying down a billion tracks to make one recording) which
->has led (IMHO) to a pop music world in which performers don't know how to
->improvise and react to one another's playing which led to a shift from 
->the skill of performing music to that of "composing" an album, a trend that
->I just don't care for.  (Of course that doesn't mean it's bad, just means
->I don't like it.)

Which was more important, classical composers composing symphonies or
"performing" them?  How could they perform them alone anyway?  This
isn't new.  Look at all the parts/tracks they put down, even if they
were on paper and not tape.

Performing has to be secondary to composing, unless you're
talking about totally improvised performances, otherwise what would
be played?  Someone has to compose the music.

Also, how often do you get to see live performances?  Most often
people hear the "composed" albums (ex Kate Bush), which are the main
fruits of the artist's work and which will out-live the artist.

->[...] is because the Beatles had paid their dues already, had become an
->excellent performing band and knew the value of a good song.  Bands that
->were influenced by the Beatles didn't necessarily have all that.  It was 
->the influence of Sgt. Peppers that was the bad thing (IMHO) not the album
->itself.

I do agree that bands and individuals need to realize their limits and
not push themselves beyond what they are capable of doing fairly
well.  They should be challenged to push themselves to do well though,
by themselves or by others.

Alex Gibbs:  arg@kilimanjaro.opt-sci.arizona.edu
Max Headroom: "Why've you got ice-cream on your head?" / Edison: "The
shower cut out part way through.  Now the coffee maker's gone nuts."
/ Max: "That'll teach you not to put a blanket over the TV.  Shouldn't
fool with technology!" / Edison: "If it wasn't for fooling with technology,
my buddy in a box, you wouldn't exist!" / Max: "At least I w/work/work."