Hopefully an end to the Cynthia string (*snort*)

[brownfld@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Kenneth R Brownfield)]

     Another fun reading day in the land of love-hounds:
     First, Boris' comments:

>>     You have no right to believe what you believe.
>I hope this is a joke.

     Actually, it was a point you missed.  I wanted Cynthia to think about
how she felt after someone told her that.  I felt in my so humble opinion that
she should at least be aware of what she was, uhm, "dishing" out.  She seems
to be taking offense to something she insists Jorn should not take offense to.

>As I see it, there's no arguement being made. She just thought the whole
>"Catherine" postulate was silly. If you read the post again, I am sure
>that a person saying "Oh Brother, give me a break," is not beyond
>reason. 

     The person is if they demean a person's character.  I certainly don't feel
that anyone really has that right.  Cynthia is certainly not an exception, and
she didn't exactly ask for a break.  It sounded distinctly like "What a fool"
to me.

>I don't think it was anything personal. Take it easy. Listen to Ken. (the
>song, I mean). (nothing personal Ken)

     Don't worry.  It's Jorn that would find it personal.  I certainly have no
evidence to the contrary that would suggest he didn't have that right.

>--boris

     Onward to Cynthia's response to my comments:

>Um, I didn't know I needed one to express an opinion about a
>subject matter that has nothing to do with psychology.

     Unfortunately, making judgements of a personal nature, however crude 
they are, takes more than lack of tact.  Everything you do, say, and feel is
psychology.  Without at least a respect for character and personality you have
no place to comment on validity or acceptability of belief.  Opinions are
a different matter, but that doesn't seem to be your forte.

>>      You have no right to believe what you believe.
>Oh, gosh, I am so sorry!  I didn't know!!  I was under a
>mistaken impression that I lived in America, where thoughts
>and beliefs are free.  I didn't know I lived in
>"Ken-Decides-What-You-Can-Believe-Land".  Forgive me, my Lord.

     Well, you felt what I wanted you to feel.  Unfortunately you missed the
connection to the point I was making in the next sentence:

>>    Now, stop and see what you're thinking.  Put yourself in Jorn's shoes and
>Eeeeeeeeewwwwwww!  Icky!

     Who are you taking out to your Junior prom this year?
     You felt exactly what Jorn would feel when he read your note.  Telling
Jorn he has no right to be offended would be directly hypocritical.  Just
think about it, I'm not insulting you.

>> tell me that anyone really has the right to opinionate 
>Yes, I'm afraid anyone does, if you mean to give an opinion.

     Right, keep reading:

>> or in any way compromise what someone believes. 
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
>I didn't compromise anyone's beliefs.  I stated my own.

     ...by insulting a character trait that you have no right to judge.  I was
making a point in my post, you apparently didn't quite pick it up.  Stating
your beliefs does not blindly include comments on the "correctness" of others'.

>Yeah yeah, what it boils down to is that you disagree with me.

     No, I don't disagree with you, I feel that your post was tasteless and
immature, even for UseNet.  I have a problem with apparently (intentional or
not) insensitive people wherever I go.  Disagreement is comparatively nothing.
I'm being as objective as I can in a fairly disturbed mood.

>So what?  That's what makes the world go around.  I didn;t say
>anyone's feelings were bad or wrong.  I said I found the
>writing style to be goofy, and the attitude to be
>sychophantic.

     Is this your opinion?  It certainly came across to me as a slam on Jorn's
character.  If this is not so, please indicate it.  I may have read in fire
where there was none, but I certainly wasn't looking for it.

>I think humans are about individuality and variety. So what's
>YOUR problem?

     Comments made with an apparent degree of insensitivity and lack of tact.
What do you expect when you throw someone's beliefs out the door?  Disagree,
but judging it is _not_ a right you or I have.  You seem to be defending your
feelings quite adamantly.  Give the same right to Jorn:  he does after all
deserve it at least as much as you.

>That you even would make such an issue of essentially an
>informal signoff shows you very badly need to take up a hobby
>_other_ than trying to curtail the civil liberties of others.

     A hobby?  Like neutering pets?
     I'm not curtailing liberties, I'm curtailing a possibly insensitive
precedent that has surfaced before.

>My my my, how difficult it is for some folks to deal with a
>divergent viewpoint!

     If that was the sum of all my troubles, I wouldn't have as much grey hair.
     Cynthia's reply to Jorn:

>No one is denying your right to have feelings and sincerity
>from your heart or wherever it might come from.  I believe you

     It came from the corn on his right big toe.  Just thought you'd wanna
know for sure.

>were totally sincere.  I simply found it to be written in a
>style that struck me as adolescent and idol-worshipping, as
>opposed to it being a mature piece.  That you can't accept

     Read what you write once in awhile.  You'll become numb to the sensation.

>Oh darlin, I love to hear a grown boy cry!  Even a (use bad
>Austrian accent here) GIRLY-Boy!  COme to Mama and I'll take
>your mind off your lower lip being all pooched out.
>Sorry if you felt dumped on, but that's your problem Jornie.
>I just expressed an opinion.  Sorry, I really _did_ roll my
>eyes.   And I truly appreciate the "little twerps" remark,
>especially coming from someone who excels in twerpitudinous
>glory.  
>Now, now, sweetie, don't play with fire, cuz you get burned
>and get a boo-boo!

     Hon?  Don't talk about fire.  If you want a flame war, it will be a
distinct, yet instantly fleeting thought.  I'm taking none of this personally,
but you seem to be sitting in the frying pan, and fanning the flames below
you.  Would you like a light curry sauce to go with your burning ego?  It
will add distinction to the pungent smell of burning hypocrisy.
     If you're not making a personal attack, what the hell _are_ you saying?
You seem to be claiming the right to an opinion and denying any personal/
character references in your intentions, while a knife drips blood in your 
ther hand.  This isn't grade-school recess, Cynthia.  Tact is a virtue here,
both for others and for your own good.
     You don't want a flamewar, Cynthia.  You have self-preservation to
consider, I have contents-of-stomach-preservation to consider, and the
respectable folks here deserve more.
 
>delicious.  I have a wicked grin in my face just thinking
>about you breathing heavy .  Don't know about the address

     I'm sure Jorn will give you a breath sample.
     Look, just drop it.  Something lacking in tact was said, and that's fine.
While I won't twiddle my thumbs while someone tries to make a fool out of
another person while being a fool themselves, I will be grateful if the
point were just dropped.

>cynthia@bsbbs.UUCP (Cynthia Rosas)
>The Big Sky BBS (+1 614 864 1198)

     I also want to add that Richard Caldwell made some good arguments.  While
his points seem to inherently disagree with my viewpoint here, he has
definately made excellent and IMHO insightful comments.  As well as other
hounds whose names have left my preconscious.
     See?  Quibbles have their high points, be they few.

							Ken.