Re: The Death of Emotion

[boris%monsoon.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Boris Chen)]

In article <9110132127.AA02924@greylady.uoregon.edu> stevev@greylady.uoregon.EDU (Steve VanDevender) writes:
>However, I can well understand why Jorn would be offended by
>Cynthia Rosas's response to his "Catherine" post, in which she
>wrote:
>
>> [the famous "busted and eyesocket from rolling them so hard" post]
>
>This is the sort of thing that I think Vickie can rightly be
>annoyed by, and which Richard can't rightly defend, for it goes
>beyond rational criticism of Jorn's proposal, to imply that he is
>sycophantic and childish.  Richard's "The Sensual Suspension in
>Gaffa" post, however much it might have said things distasteful
>to some love-hounds, presented its ideas without belittling
>others.  Cynthia's post, however, is the sort of thing that kills
>rational discussion since few people are egoless enough to just
>sit around and take that kind of abuse.

So what you are saying is that one should not say things about another's
character simply by the post that s/he makes. Well, it seems that Vickie
and some other's diagree with you:

==========================================

In article <m0kVgKf-00024BC@chinet.chi.il.us> katefans@chinet.chi.il.us (Chris n Vickie) writes:
>
>Vickie here.
>
>Minor disagreements can be dealt with via e-mail, there was no reason
>for Cynthia to tear into him like she did. I agree with Ken Brownfield,
>in that her reaction showed a lot about her own character. Richard Caldwell
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^       
>wrote a fascinating and thought-provoking article about his own reactions
>to TSW. He ruined it by coming off sounding very cynical and bitchy and he
>even made it a point to refer to Jorn's article. No reason for it, he'd
>made his point. He just wanted to show us all what his steel-hardened
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>heart looked like, I guess. It was fascinating too.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
===================================================
>
I think that anyone can have an opinion about the contents of an
article, and express them. They can also have an opinion about the
person who wrote the article, and express that opinion as well. 
I think that Cynthia (the one with the "eyesocket" post) was just
being frank and blunt about what she thought. Just as frank as
Jorn was about how he felt about Catherine, or Kate or whoever that
person is. I think Cynthia could have been more tactful, but I don't know
if she knew that Jorn would be so upset. Perhaps, Cynthia can improve
in that area, and perhaps include ways in which Jorn or whoever can
improve in their expression of emotion. Most of us agree that KT is
good at expressing emotions well. Maybe that can be a basis of some
kind. But whatever the case, I think people should stop bantering
about how emotion is discouraged. I haven't seen anyone disparaging
emotion. And I don't see how one can hate emotion (if that is not
itself a lost cause) and like KT, since her music is very emotional.

I think the point is well made that people make KT into a divine being.
IF you don't thnk that is the case, then say the reasons why, or
if you believe her to be a divine being, then say why. But there is
no real reason to sling malice around. Malice is one of the emotions that
dominates lot's of newsgroups (try alt.atheism some time), and is
one emotion that can be kept to a minimal and never missed.

>If you present your ideas in this forum, then you are likely to
>have them criticized.  But when criticizing an idea, don't
>attack the person who presented it.
>
I think what people write tell a lot about the person. It doesn't 
always, since facades are easy to erect. But, in general, especially
if you know the person is serious (in the case of Jorn), the
post shows alot about the person. So, there is no real way to separate
the two things: person, person's idea, since one stems from another
and refects qualities of the other. I'd just advise to use a measure
of tact when criticizing a person, and realize that criticism need not
always be negative.

Anyway, gotta catch Eerie, Indiana.

--boris

PS. AAARGH! Stupid Thomas hearing. They cancel Eerie for this!?!

PSS. AS I remember it, the post about KT not touring was from somone
named Tracy, not Robyn. Can anyone comfirm?