Counting visuals

[PMANCHESTER@ccmail.sunysb.edu]

Jon Drukman <jsd@gaffa.MIT.EDU> writes:
>I was NOT wrong about NFE.  I'm NEVER wrong about ANYTHING.  And don't
>you or anyone else ever forget it!

I hereby stipulate that Mr. Drukman is not wrong about the matters of fact he 
reviews in respect to counting kb videos.  He makes clear that by 'video' he 
means "official" video, available in commercial release (hence he does not 
count "Delius"), and that with respect to counting videos 'from albums', the 
release in question must be at the time of the album itself (hence he doesn't 
count "Them Heavy People" as a TKI video).  Fair enough:  I brought up the 
album release as a total package event myself.

>>     I was thinking not so much in terms of videos proper, but of available 
>>visualizations, choreographical realizations of songs.
>
>I strongly object strongly to this playing loose and free with facts.
>You would have to count the Wogan appearance of Running Up That Hill
>as a separate "realization" for HOL, which you neglected to do.  You
>would have to count the Harty (?) appearance of Experiment IV (pretty
>darn cool).  You're just going to paint yourself into a corner this
>way.  I think there's a TKI song on those early Dutch films that isn't
>on your list below.  You just don't have all the instances at your
>fingertips, and using "number of choreographical realizations" (all of
>a sudden it isn't "videos"!) to prove a point about Kate's decline is a
>dubious technique at best, and horribly misleading at worst.

I agree that Mr. Drukman's definition of 'the facts' is rigorous and 
generates precise information, whereas mine leaves grey areas.  Yes, I would 
have to count the Wogan HOL as a second video (especially since it was the 
one on MTV).  From the point of view of "visualizations," I would have to 
count two (at least) for "Babooshka," and so on.  And no, I don't have all 
the instances at my fingertips; but I still think that "number of 
choreographical realizations" is a valid perspective on Kate's investment in 
her work.  She has often commented on the importance of visualization in her 
songs, both as a whole additional way to get them across, and in what she 
tries to do with live performance.  Is it really misleading to set the four 
videos from TD and HOL (to stay with agreed facts) alongside the three from 
TSW, as evidence of declining invention or enthusiasm?  I remember complaints 
in this very forum, both about the strength of the new videos, and about 
getting only three with the purchase as against four with "Hair of the 
Hound".

>Just one quick question - why are you listing six "performances" under
>TKI but only counting five?

Craven stupid inattentive haste.

>Wow, it's been ages since I've gotten into a pointless and hostile
>debate about katefaKTs!  Somebody help me, I'm having flashbacks...

Mr. Drukman's independent-mindedness, sharp ear, and breadth of musical 
interest are one of the key strengths of this group.  I have always taken the 
tone of his flames to be affable pugnaciousness, and it was in that spirit 
that I set out to clarify my admittedly reckless hyperbole.  I've learned 
from the exchange; I am sorry if he's really hostile.

............................................................................
"C'mon, we all sing!"                            pmanches@sbccmail  (BITNET)
                                   pmanchester@ccmail.sunysb.edu  (INTERNET)
     Peter Manchester, Religious Studies, SUNY at Stony Brook, NY 11794-3725