Richard Cook's _New_Musical_Express_ interview, October 1982

[IED0DXM%OAC.UCLA.EDU@MITVMA.MIT.EDU]

 To: Love-Hounds
 From: Andrew Marvick (IED)
 Subject: Richard Cook's _New_Musical_Express_ interview, October 1982

     Here's another interview for Love-Hounds. IED sure hopes someone's
actually reading these!
      This interview is very misleading. It was edited before
publication in such a way that the original conversation which
spurred Kate's comments was lost. Although several
of Mr. Cook's questions appeared in the printed interview,
many more were evidently omitted. The result is that
Kate's remarks sometimes seem to shift unexpectedly from
one subject to another. The omissions also make it seem as though the
subjects Kate discusses are raised spontaneously by her, rather than
by Mr. Cook. A third peculiarity is the use of Kate Bush songtitles
as subheadings througout the interview. They bear no clear connection
with the interview itself. This Love-Hounds version was edited, as usual,
by IED.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

     "My music sophisticated? I'd rather you said that than turdlike!"

             A modern, multi-media, adult-orientated
           entertainer, or a wild and wuthering heroine
              who's been dreaming since a brilliant
                start to her career? Richard Cook
                 plays Heathcliffe to Kate Bush's
                 Cathy. Pictures by Anton Corbijn.


    Breathing

     "I don't think I am eccentric as a person. When
I get older I might be. Maybe my music is a little eccentric
sometimes.
     "People can react as seriously as they want to. I'd
like them to sit there with the lyrics in front of them and the record
turned up really loud, giving themselves to it. A lot of people will
listen to it, and a certain percentage will take time and effort
to get into it."

     L'Amour looks...

     Kate Bush is a small woman with a huge, protective smile.
She has an even and unhurried style of conversation, but it is hard
to get her to speak what might really be on her mind.
     We bubbled along for twenty minutes until I took up the
subject of her earliest incarnation, ruthlessly enshrined in the
erotic trivia of _The_Kick_Inside_--no offense
intended, ma'am--and a familiar block shutters
her expression. She retreats into the rockspeak of albums
and songs and images and progression without regret.
     Well, its only _NME_. They've never carried a torch for me.

     All We Ever Look For

     "I think I've always seen myself as someone who writes
songs that go on an album. If there are any singles among them, then
they can be chosen for that. But apart from _Wuthering_Heights_,
I was always an album-orientated artist. Even if my singles are more
remembered."
     You have no regard for those instantaneous qualities of the
single? A rocket going up brilliantly for a moment?
     "Each album is like a rocket. I build it up as much
as I can, and see how high it goes. I'm never aware of any
commercial value. I never sit down to write a single. Whenever
I write, I'm challenging myself in some area. Everyone who
creates something considers themself an artist in some way, don't
they?"
     I wonder whether you really want to do music--whether
you'd rather do poetry or theatre or dance or...
     "I'm doing that as well, really, aren't I?
Maybe it's wrong to see me as a pop personality. You're
going to keep changing--_Wuthering_Heights_ was a story with
music and dancing, but I've changed so much since then.
The things that the media most remember about me are those
things. Some people see that I am changing, but...oh, not
as many as the people who hang onto those singles. But I am
beginning to be seen as an albums artist."
     What's an albums artist?
     "It's not being a pop personality or whatever
it was you called me. I'm not interested in making singles.
Maybe I will make some 'singles' one day..."

     Pull Out the Pin

     _The_Dreaming_ is an ornate, billowing record. Its songs are peculiarly
ambitious: their grand design all but drives out the spirit of lowly pop music.
     The ghosts of famous men pace their dark corridors; great
tunnels of sound emulate mighty and multi-levelled conceptions.
Songs are sung in a multitude of voices, like a chittering,
half-heard spirit-world. Bush's operatic entreaties are finally
matched to music of a similar size and shape. At any one moment
     It's already a huge success. Despite the failure of
the title song in single form--there are surely no singles
on the record--Bush has found that her admirers have not gone
away. I suggest to her some of the things it seems to be about,
like the struggle between public and private faces, and the
ability to disappear inside a recording; she is scarcely
drawn. Not suspicious--simply not interested in the ambiguity
and anatomy of music so intensely organised. <The meaning of
this statement is unclear to IED.> Kate Bush is a
dedicated artist.
     Is she there?

     The Dreaming

     "Primitive? I'm not sure about that word...Perhaps.
There are traditional roots in it. Basic forms of music."
     I think it's extremely sophisticated.
     "Do you? Sophisticated? Well, I'd rather you say
that than turdlike.
     "I could explain some of it, if you want me to: _Suspended_in_
_Gaffa_ is reasonably autobiographical, which most of my songs aren't.
<Doug Alan is loving this. IED can just see him chortling with glee.>
It's about seeing something that you want--on any level--and not
being able to get that thing unless you work hard and in the
right way towards it. When I do that I become aware of so many
obstacles, and then I want the thing without the work. And then when
you achieve it you enter...a different level--everything
will slightly change. It's like going into a time warp which
otherwise wouldn't have existed.
     "Oh, yes, quite a few people have surmised that from
listening to the song. But when you explain it like this it
doesn't sound like anything. The idea is much more valuable
within the song than it is in my telling you about it. When you
analyse it, it seems silly.
     "_Leave_It_Open_ is the idea of human beings being like cups--like
receptive vessels. We open and shut ourselves at different times.
It's very easy to let your ego go "_nag_nag_nag_" when
you should shut it. Or when you're very narrow-minded
and you should be open. Finally you should be able to control
your levels of receptivity to a productive end.
     "_The_Dreaming_ is very different from my first two records. Each
time I do an LP it feels like the last one was years and years before.
The essence of what I'm playing has been there from the start;
it's just that the expression has been changing. What I'm
doing now is what I was trying to do four years ago. If I do
a show, it will only be music from the last two albums.
     "I wish I had a five-year plan, but I never plan too
far ahead. I get into trouble because I always take longer to do
things than I expect. That's why I knew I had to wait
for another two albums' worth of material before doing
another show.

     Get Out of My House

     "There're so many females that don't fit
in any category at all. There're a lot of people that
would love to pin them in those categories. When an image is
created around a person--especially a female--there're so
many presumptions thrown in. There are a lot of of female artists
who are stereotypes, and who nearly fall into those
niches people talk about, but there're a lot who don't.
When you mention traditional females it sounds as though they
have nothing within them--epitomes of a situation. Any singer
is a human being working inside and letting all kinds of
different energies come out.
     "The labelling that comes with the creation of an
image is always a disadvantage. When someone has done something
very artistic, it won't be let out when they've been
packaged. When a female is attractive--whether she emphasises
it or not--she's automatically projected with sexual
connotations. I don't think that happens so readily with me.
     "When I started, it seemed that a lot of singers were
singing as if they weren't even related to the lyrics. They'd
sing about heartbreak, and keep a big smile on their faces. For
me, the singer is the expression of the song. An image
should be created for each _song_, or at least
each record; the personality that goes with that
particular music. But I don't think that will ever be seen
by the majority of people who look at the pictures and see the
so-called images come out.
     "When I was first happening, the only other female on
the level I was being promoted at was Blondie. We were both
being promoted on the basis of being female bodies as well as
singers. I wasn't looked at as being a female singer-songwriter.
People weren't even generally aware that I wrote my own songs
or played the piano until maybe a year or so after that. The
media just promoted me as a female body. It's like I've
had to prove that I'm an artist inside a female body.
The idea of the body as a vehicle is...just one of those things.
But I'm someone who talks about music and songs.

     Wuthering Heights

     "You gauge by feedback as to whether your
voice inside is right. It says 'Do this,' and you
have to see what other people say about it. The barrier against
self-indulgence has to come from within yourself. You have to see
other people's criticism to be able to do anything about it.
You can get a different anwswer to a problem from everyone you
know." <This is a subject about which Kate has often shown
conflicting attitudes, as in the preceding statements, which seem
to contradict each other several times.>
     Do you try too hard for mystery?
     "I don't sit down and try to express mystery. I worry
that I try too hard to create _spontaneity_. I can
be singing a song of a calm person who suddenly becomes
aggressive, and I try and reflect that vocally. Different ideas
come across in different accents."
     Is it worth playing a "message" song like _Breathing_ in
a medium which normally trivialises anything of issue status?
     "There was a point in people's lives when the
imminent prospect of war was scaring the shit out of them, and that
resulted in a lot of anti-war songs. At that time it was worthwhile.
When I wrote _Breathing_ it seemed like
people were sitting waiting for a nuclear bomb to
go off. Nuclear power seemed like...Someone was getting set to blow
us up without our consent. I felt I wanted to write a song about it.
     "If it was something that was bothering so many
people then yes, I think it was worthwhile. Songs or films or
little individuals don't do anything on a big level. Big
things need bigger things to change them.
     "There're loads of things I think about writing
songs about which are too negative. There wouldn't be
any point. They'd be too destructive and negative. And
there're things which are too personal. <This is a
direct contradiction of a statement Kate made in another
interview.> I get loads of ideas that don't make me
go, 'Ugh!', so I don't write about them.
     "If I hear something I like, and I wish that
my work could be like that because it sounds better, then
it does influence me. Everything I like and respect I suppose
I move towards. It's hard to be specific when we don't
know what pop music is. 'Pop' is just short for popular--it
could even be popular classical music.
     "But I realise how lucky I am. I realised, making _The_Dreaming_,
when I was able to get Eberhard Weber to play on one track,
that I was so lucky because people you like and respect will
want to work with you.

     Sat In Your Lap

     "Recovering from a brilliant start...? Recovering is quite
a good word. Since it all started for me, it hasn't stopped. I'd
no idea what was going to happen. I've no regrets in
starting that way, in getting through so quickly--because you
have to keep fighting anyway, and it made things quicker, not easier.
If I hadn't got the encouragement I did...I don't know.
I might not have had so much faith, really. Less confidence in
getting involved. But it gets _harder_. Each time you do something
you have all the knowledge and mistakes behind you, so you know more:
you have more to think about.
     "I have to create time to write now. I don't stop
working. I haven't really stopped since I began. If this album
hadn't sold well, I'd still carry on in this direction. If
I made a record which I didn't much like and it sold well,
I'd still want to change the direction. When you're making
an expression of yourself, you have to be happy with it. To do it
and keep getting better--that's so hard.
     "I travelled constantly for the first two years of my
career. Much of it was incredibly sheltered, in that I only saw
hotels, TV studios and aeroplanes. The few times that I've
travelled on a social level have brought me minimal knowledge,
really, about other places. I think I've learned more from the
people than from the places.
     "When I was about six, my parents took me and my brother
to Australia. <If this was correctly transcribed, it would
indicate that John, the eldest child, already twenty years old
when Kate was six, did not travel to Australia with the rest of the
family.> We stayed there a couple of months, and I'm sure
a lot of stimulus came through. I suppose it's a very receptive
age, isn't it?

     Dreaming...dreaming

     "I suppose I'd count myself an old-fashioned person.
I like to think I'm open-minded, but when it comes down to
basic codes, I am old-fashioned. Everyone has vices. I have
vices, but I don&cq.t think I've got any...glaring ones--is
that what they're called?
     "It would really worry me if I thought my art was
being untruthful. Being true to something is the closest way
to express things. But then in another way, the whole thing is
untruthful--I'm being someone I'm not; I'm writing
about situations I'll probably never be in. Behind it there
has to be sincerity. Insincerity doesn't ring right; it has
a nasty taste.
     "The worst thing? The pressures, I suppose. They
come in from so many different levels--from so many people--that
they feel destructive towards me as a human being. Although
it happens very rarely. And I have so little time to do things
I want to."
     Are you ever worried that you are absent from your art?
     "Oh, no. I am expressing myself, but it's also
something else--it's something that's coming _through_ me.
My intentions are to put across situations that aren't
that close to me but which are more interesting.
     "It scares me that I work too hard. I can be so
tired and involved in work that I'm not living on another
level. It's a reality of the situation. I have to do things
I don't want to, so that I can do what I want the rest of
the time. It's that I don't seem to have time to myself.

     Still breathing

     "I want to do a show next. It'll take at least six
months to prepare, because there'll be so many levels to it.
The musical challenge will be the hardest I've set myself..."
<This show never materialised, of course.>
     A lot of people would like to see you just sitting at a
piano and singing a set of your songs.
     "Not nearly as many. It would be too easy, as if I
couldn't be bothered to prepare a proper show. It wouldn't
do anything for the blend of movement and music. That is
what I really want to do. Music and movement together in
a modern sense. People like it that you're not taking the
easy way out."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- Andrew Marvick