Re: Madonna and Chaos

[nessus (Doug Alan)]

> From: Chris J. Valas <cv%linus@mitre-bedford.ARPA>

> Duran Duran?  Madonna?  Production values?  Personally I don't give
> a damn if LeBon can sing Sinatra's dick off, Duran Duran's whole
> career is a "production".  These guys are the Bay City Rollers of
> the 80's.  As for Madonna, I suppose she can sing, and she certainly
> peddles her twat with the best of them, but really, I think this
> posting simply demonstrates the all-pervasive nature of music's
> lowest common denominator -- commerciality.  Doug, you've been
> invaded....

Yeah, it's lousy, but what can one do?  Joe Turner has really good
taste in a lot of other music.  And so does Shelli.  And she's too
cute to get too upset with.  I guess this is just what happens when
you have a fan club for someone like Kate Bush, who walks the
tightrope between Pop and the Avant-Garde.  (Or mediates the bridge
from Asgeroth to Deberzil (or something like that) to use a
gtaylorism.)

Now there are even people now on the mailing list (a mailing list for
Kate Bush fans) who don't even like Kate Bush!  Oh well.

In any case, I just sent off another one of my patented anti-Madonna
flames to net.music, I might as well forward it here so that everyone
can see what the Official Love-Hounds Editorial Opinion on Madonna is
(if you don't already know).

> [alfke@cit-vax.UUCP (J. Peter Alfke) writes:]

> Now come off it, Doug.

> You claim that it is objective truth that "Madonna is bad music".

I don't believe necessarily in any sort of "objective truth".  But I
believe that Madonna's 'music' is bad, in that I feel people should
not listen to it or support it.  Not only do I not like it, but it
disgusts me.  I believe that all formula commercial music is bad
because it helps to stiffle real art.  I also think that the set of
morals evident in her 'music' and image are harmful and dispicable.

All this however is only my opinion.  But I believe the fact that
1+1=2 is really only a matter of opinion too.  I've covered all this
before, invloving hundreds of KB (that's kilobytes, folks.  People
with filters for KB will now not see this article, even though it has
nothing to do with Kate Bush) of debate.  I don't want to go through
it all again.  If you are really set on protecting the world from my
defamations on Madonna, find net.music archives somewhere and read
them, before arguing with me on the matter.  I've probably already
said several times everything I have to say on any point you might
make.

> This is directly on a par with religious types declaring that
> "[religion they disagree with] is false and nothing but
> devil-worship!!".  If it were objectively true, you'd think there'd
> be a way to prove it, but there just ain't.

In that case, maintaining that murder is wrong is on par with those
religious types.  You can't *prove* murder is wrong.

Basic philosophy lesson number one: There isn't a way to *prove*
anything at all!  You always have to start with assumptions.  And the
truth of the conclusion of a proof is always conditional on the truth
of the assumptions.  But you can't prove your assumptions.

I always base what I say, however, on *reason*.  And for any claim I
make, I can tell you my assumptions and my reasons, and my conclusions
always follow from those.  Most of your fanatical religious types,
however, never use reason.  They blindly follow what someone else
tells them truth is.  And the people prescribing "truth" for the
religion are usually mostly interested in power and/or money.

> Yes, I like those songs of hers that I've heard on the radio, and I
> even OWN "Into the Groove".  This is well-done, hook-laden pure
> pop, ...

Like a good Pepsi jingle.  The purpose of Madonna's "music" is to make
as much money as possible and to make Madonna as well-known as
possible.  That's its only purpose.  It does this by giving people
what they want.  A belly-button to drool over.  Music that is totally
unchallanging and can be absorbed immediately without any intelligent
effort because it is merely derivative of all other pop music.  Lyrics
and image that say what the masses want to hear: "It's okay to
manipulate people to get what you want.  After all this is the ME
generation."  All in all, it's a perfectly crafted commercial
*product*.  And turning art into a *product* is disgusting and harmful.

> ... and Madonna herself is, well, interesting to look at and has carved
> out a definite personality for herself, which is more than I can say
> for the majority of today's Top 40 product.

No, the record company carved out a personailty for her.

> I don't expect everyone to believe that my taste in music is
> perfect, but it should be obvious that I have eclectic tastes and
> don't get taken in by trash that commercial radio tries to pound
> into my ears.

You already have been taken in if you like Madonna!  At least I can
see from your other tastes that you haven't yet lost your ability to
like good music.  Perhaps just to recognize and dislike bad music.

...

Darn, I had resolved not to ever flame about Madonna again.  Oh well.
You can all rest assured that I won't do it again (we hope) unless you
all beg me...

			"Manipulation, the danger sign"

			 Doug
-- 
Nessus@Eddie.MIT.EDU
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