* * DREAMING * *

* 1985 - 1995 *

A 'Best of' Love-Hounds Collection

Compilation by Wieland Willker


Notes from the html'er

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DediKaTed to KaTe Bush

I also dediKaTe this to
and Ron-Cloudbustin'-Hill!
You are the true KateKnights! Cheerioou!


Hey, that's why I READ rec.music.gaffa! KaTe fans are much more intelligent than mere humans, so when they argue, it is a work of art. I love reading the endless discussions ...


(Oct. 1991)


Hello folks, I'm back from the archives! And, I did it all!

Someone, sometime: "As for the Love-Hounds archives, my ftp just laughs at me when I try to connect to anything not within walking distance."

IED, Jan '89: "A couple of problems with that idea. First, IED doesn't know what the fuck (pardon his French) an "FTP" is, nor does he particularly want to find out."

Mmmh. Okay, so, here comes a KT-filtered version. From 50 MB down to 6 MB. Very best-of'ed, very enjoyable, I hope. No flames (okay, I left some artistic/funny ones), no bitmaps, no multiples of multiples of copies, no lengthy headers, no sigs, etc. and ordered by topics! It took me several months. I hope you will enjoy reading.

If you are interested in what was going on ten years ago on this list, have a look at DREAMING. I filtered the archive as I did before for MOMENTS (a Red Shoes collection). I selected every information on KT and related things (I hope) and deleted all other "nonsense". I did this for fun, I enjoyed reading every bit of it. And I learned a lot. Even some new words, that are not in my dictionary ("pratt", "having a wank"...). I hope you will enjoy reading my compilation. In the back of my head I did it also with the intention of compiling a material list for a SUPER-GARDEN (hi IED).

Also I think, we're now in the time of KT becoming 'history'. And it's at least in part up to us to save the facts for future investigations.

As in MOMENTS, quotes start with a ">" only in front of the first paragraph to allow grouped style, then followed by a blank line. I often changed the "Subject" to fit better to the real subject. I also deleted whole paragraphs in the mails, which were not interesting (to me), leaving in some cases only a "PS"! I also left out things that went into the GARDEN or CLOUDBUSTING, like the various discographies, some interviews etc. . So, be warned. This is a very subjective, biased collection. If you want to see the real truth, you have to do it all over again on your own. I think, Ron Hill wanted to do this, too, and announced something called "Deeper Understanding", but it never appeared in public. Maybe he was tired from CB? Well, you really did your Kate-job, Ron! (What's a Kate-job?) Btw, where is Ron?

The beginning of this list in 1985 was more like a rec.dougalanexplains.music than the list I know from today. But it's completely okay! Doug is a very, VERY nice guy (as far as one can deduce this from his postings) and one with many good ideas. I enjoyed reading everything. Doug dominated the list very strongly (he was the only KateFan at that time on LH) and so it's not surprising, that many of the now commonly accepted (?) explanations of KT songs came out of his brain.

The time Doug was away for his KT interview, the rest of the group talked most of the time about the THE !!!! the rest of the time they talked about everything else except KT !!!

BTW, the interview was in fact more Kate Bush interviewing Doug Alan, as far as we can deduce this from his transcription. :-)

The list more and more "degenerated" to a list with Doug explaining and informing about KT, while all others constantly talking about all thinkable other subjects. Doug fought for a lost cause...

But in April 1986 everything changed. A new STAR arose from the dust.

I E D!

With two giant "Venturing into the Garden" mails he forced the list back to its trail.

AND: The flamewar began....

> From: Mark Woodruff
> Subject: shit
> You're full of it, and this essay reeks of it.
> Take me off the mailing list, Doug, I can't stand the smell any more.

Oh, I really felt sorry for IED in the beginning, killed several times, just after entering the arena with absolute appropriate topics. I'm really interested in IED's thoughts after these reactions. I think in the beginning he waited hopefully for some constructive comments or maybe a real intellectual discussion?

IED: "My sincere thanks to everyone for their patience and consideration. Responses, obviously, are encouraged."

"Waiting to hear any comments from l-h's nation-wide..."

"... but why so little feedback on Kate Bush?

Date: Wed, 04 Jun 86 16:14 PDT
Subject: Oh, forchrissake!

KATE BUSH...remember? [complete message! --WIE]

But after that in 1986ff he really went a bit crazy. It was too much, don't you think, IED? Your "Sturm und Drang"-period?

IED illuminates the origin of his style: "Partly out of a feeling of empathy for such a means of justifying one's obsessions, I have chosen to adopt Reich's pedantic forms and ponderous style in dealing with the work of Kate Bush, since this kind of obsessive interest in another person's life and work is better disguised, I think, when couched in the dry-as-dust language of the Orgonotic scholar." (May 1986)

Sometimes I got the feeling, that you played a psychological experiment with the members of the list, did you?

In my compilation you may think I overemphasized IED a bit, but that's because I really enjoyed reading his mails. I hope, you will, too. Also it's for historical reasons!

And you have to take into account, that at that time IED and Doug were the only two hardcore fans on the list! If one needs a "tour de force" through 1986ff., simply download the archive and set your "Search"-pointer to "IED". Thank you IED for your presence.

Hey folks, this list and its inherent knowledge benefits soo strongly from IED and Doug, that we can't praise their efforts enough! So, I wish both of you a very, very Big Sky to the end of your long lives!

"There is absolutely no question that, to date, The Dreaming and Hounds of Love constitute, collectively, the greatest achievement in 20th century Western music." (IED, June 1986)

When reading all this stuff, the question comes to mind, what job did you've had, IED, that you could do all of these writings/transcriptions/investigations etc.? Did you got one of these rare assistant-whatever jobs at the university? Sitting there the whole day long in a bureau, thinking: "What can I do today?" Or do you need no sleep? (IED NEVER SLEEPS!) He invested incredible amounts of time into this KT business.

Once someone said, that this is all to much for him and he has sent one of IED's sermons to KT! Now you saw IED REALLY nervous! It seemed to be a joke, but IED repeatedly asked about the case, what exactly he has sent, to what address, if he got any responses etc. And I think he thought about a letter by himself?

The next interesting person that appeared on the show was Jonathan Drukman. He could keep pace with IED intellectually and, musician and producer himself, could contribute very valuable technical bits. With constant malice he wrote :>oug instead of |>oug, who then always lost his cool. [" There! You did it again! -- |>oug "]

Jon also set IED's head right several times, when he had written nonsense (this happened from time to time). - The most rational man on the line.

The main problem with IED at that time was, that he spent enormous amounts of time in answering everything. And I mean EVERYTHING. Many other people simply had not the time to answer in the same way. This resulted in some irritation and annoyance. And they took him far too serious ("You are truly psychotic.") !!! IED, you have my admiration for manipulating this group, really cool, but it's also a dangerous thing!

In April 1989 the Cathy Demos came to the public ear. And they started a giant tape tree... Everybody had to send his request to the mailing list!!! What a good idea!!!

From: Doug Alan <nessus@athena.mit.edu>
"Hi there. Your humble pseudo-moderator has returned from the beautiful Highlands of Scotland to see that Love-Hounds has sunk to a new low. What do I find upon returning, but a hundred messages posted to the entire mailing list saying "I want one too!". Haven't any of you read the netiquette guide? Or at least have some common sense? Do you think thousands of people want to read "I want one too"? Don't you realize that the cost to send out all of those messages could probably have paid for every reader of this mailing list to have several copies of the tape? Will I ever be able to leave Love-Hounds on autopilot ever again?"

And they discussed to excess the pros and cons of doing such an evil thing of copying this bootleg strictly against KT's will; with IED as the head of all this!!!

Then in July 1989 the dawn of The Sensual World. It's abso-blooming-lutely great to read along with all this and listen to the album!

The most discussed topic was, if the laugh between L&A and The Fog belongs to L&A or The Fog or has to be considered as a separate "song"! [My personal view on this is, that the laugh belongs to the "Yeah". That is, she knows, we love her for saying these sexy "Yeah's" and she did it for us ("Yeah"), but couldn't hold back a big laugh about it, like: "Have you heard it? I did it again." --WIE]

Also history teaches us, that it was NOT Jorn Barger, who discovered the Ulysses-origin of TSW, but Julian West. Jorn only posted the final line by line comparison.

Something very strange must have hit IED in the beginning of 1990. I don't know what it was but he wasn't the same afterwards. There were no posts for some month and after that only short ones on special topics. Mmmh. Fatal Kateian dream experiences? Or something more mundane?

In 1990 several lovehounds experienced the KonvenTion 1990! Very magical and moving reviews and a detailed transcription of the interview section by IED.

In 1991 Ron Hill split into ten Ron Hill clones and they posted approx. one accurately transcribed interview per day! Giant (Kate-)job!
And: In 1991 we finally got Rocket Man and Candle In The Wind! Other than these, 1991 was rather boring.
In Jan. 1992 a person with prior knowledge could detect the first signs of 'Jorn going mad'. :-(( Great shit! Is he still in his 'warmroom', btw?

In Febr. 1992 Hannah, KaTe's mum died. Looking back from now, it seems to be the biggest break ever in Kate's life. I hope, she has enough angels around.
The Red Shoes: For H.

All in all 1992 was rather boring, too. IED was away... But there was ONE man, called Ron Hill...

All the TRS-stuff from 1993-1995 went into MOMENTS, my Red Shoes collection. Everything else is included in this compilation. It stops at the of 1995.

All new stuff will go into a hypothetical KB-8 collection.

What do we learn from all this?

  1. Never post something completely negative about an artist!
  2. Never post something completely negative!
  3. Never post. [No, this one is a joke!]
  4. Indicate jokes for the poor-minded!
  5. Post very, very many positive things!!! KT be your shining example.
  6. Don't criticize others just for the joy of criticism! Respect other opinions! Forgive them ten-thousand times. Think twice, before pressing "Send"!
  7. Never use "Tab's"! (This is great shit for editing purposes!)
  8. Try to avoid "Mailbag" or "MisK" in the Subject-line!

When reading my compilation, don't tell me: "There's too much IED!" I answer: Read the archive and find out HOW MUCH I have omitted! And: He worked like a berserker, really. I still haven't found out, why he did that. But he did and for our all good. Thank's for your example, IED! In your bright light little Wieland hides in the corner...

Okay, that's it. Enjoy! Have a party!

Best wishes
(drifting away under The Big Sky...

You want my reply? - What was the question?)

I close with the greatest single sentence in the whole archive:

"She may not tour, but when you need her, she's there."

(Melanie J. Oeding)


Wieland Willker


written by Love-Hounds
compiled and edited
Wieland Willker
Sept 1995 June 1996

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