Re: Bankrupt Record Chains

["John D. Walker" <jdwalker@post.cis.smu.edu>]

Hi Don -


JW      jdwalker@post.smu.edu

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On Thu, 24 Jul 1997, Dongerous! wrote:

> At 7:11 PM -0700 7-22-97, John D. Walker wrote:
> >Not only is the retail aspect of the music biz in trouble, but from my
> >knothole the whole business is screwed and headed for big problems.
> 
> I've been hearing this for decades...yet it still keeps plugging on. Wow.
> Unbelievable.
> 

Yeah, yeah, yeah.  I forgot the disco era, then remembered after I sent the
post.  I was in junior high school then.  I was so tramatized I blacked 
that whole time period out.

> >I can rant about it for hours on end, how the performers get
> >screwed, how the industry is destroying the creative process, etc., etc.,
> >ad nauseum.
> 
> Take note of the word "industry." Kate Bush is a business woman and she
> creates a product for consumers to purchase.
> 

True.

> >I think it's a safe bet that without Kate Bush, there'd be no Lilith
> >Fair.
> 
> Nonsense. What basis do you have for this statement.
> 

When Sarah McLachlan first debuted, she claimed that Peter Gabriel and 
Kate Bush were two of her major influences, along with others.  Without 
Kate, would Sarah exist?  Would she be as successful as she has been?  
Would she have the clout to put a Lilith Tour together?

Maybe.  I don't think so.  You obviously feel otherwise.

> >It's also a safe bet that if Kate Bush hadn't had an awful lot
> >of things go her way, had the right friends/connections (David Gilmore
> >is ONE HELL of a major player, especially in the mid-70's), and then been
> >able to deliver the goods when called upon to do so, this newsgroup
> >wouldn't be here.
> 
> That's for sure.
> 
> However, you should thank the INDUSTRY for bringing her to your attention.
> If there wasn't a music INDUSTRY, it's pretty unlikely that you would have
> even heard of Kate Bush or that she would have made ANY records. It's not
> like she's some gal with an acoustic guitar. Her records and videos cost
> money, and the entire apparatus surrounding her is supported by the evil
> INDUSTRY. Count your bleessing, John, if there were no INDUSTRY, you'd have
> had to live in her neighborhood to have heard her.

True.  But you'd have to admit that Kate's relationship with her label 
is different than say, Bush or Stone Temple Pilots.  I believe (can't 
prove, but believe) that Kate gets a lot less flack and meddling with her 
stuff than most other signed acts.  I attribute that to two things: David 
Gilmore and Wurthering Heights.

> >Kate always had integrity, which is basically dead now.
> 
> More nonsense, John. Nirvana had integrity...listen to "In Utero." Green
> Day has integrity, for that matter. Check out their pre-"Dookie" releases
> on Lookout Records. They were doing the same stuff...it was just the
> INDUSTRY brought their artistic vision to a wider audience. I don't have a
> problem with that. Look at Alanis Morrisette. Her non-integrity dance
> albums were dismal failures. "Jagged Little Pill" is brilliant and real, no
> matter how many records it sold. Indeed, integrity can sell records.
> 

Take this for what it's worth: I think Green Day is a perfect example of 
what I'm talking about.  Rehashed Ramones without the intelligence, sells 
huge, but there's nothing there.  I have not heard the pre-Dookie stuff 
so I reserve judgement on that.  Nirvana - you're right on that 
one.  Nevermind was like a breath of fresh air.  In Utero I can't make my 
mind up on.  I'm not sure exactly what the point was, but I love 
"Tourette's".  "Jagged Little Pill" is quite good.

But for each of these, there are the clones:
Nirvana - Bush
Pearl Jam - The Nixons
Alanis - Meredith Brooks

And this one of my problems with the industry.  Occasionally something blows 
through the noise, but then it gets run into the ground by the clones.  
Same thing happened to metal in the 80's.

It will be interesting to see how the Prodigy fare, and if they can 
sustain the hype they're getting.  I have my doubts.

A lot of "new" music is simply rehashed old music.  Was this the case in 
say, 1977?  Would Green Day exist at all had the Ramones and Sex Pistols 
never happened?

> > I can't see her
> >whoring herself out as "KT Spice" or something just to make it,
> 
> That wouldn't work because she wouldn't be good at it.
>

I don't think it works even though the Spice Girls ARE good at it.  :p
 
> >and there
> >ain't no way you'd get a "Wurthering Heights" on the radio in 1997.
> 
> Maybe...maybe not. Who would have thought "Smells Like Teen Spirit" would
> have been a hit before it happened?
> 

How did it happen?  I recall this as a corporate push, where the label 
and MTV got behind them and made it work.  With that kind of clout behind 
you, you're gonna' get somewhere.  So I guess you probably could get 
Wurthering on the radio....

So what comes first, the chicken or the egg?  Are recording stars created 
by the industry, or does the industry simply speed up something that 
would have happened naturally?  Would "Smells Like Teen Spirit" have 
succeeded without the push?  Dunno.  We were ripe for a change in 1991.

> >Kate
> >is an incrediblly gifted person, but she was also real lucky, in the
> >right place at the right time, and able to maintain control of her career
> >because she did so well out of the gate.
> 
> Right.
> 

Thanks.

> >It's also interesting how the media/radio/advertising steers that little
> >"under-25" demographic around. I think we get a little harder to lead
> >around by the nose as we age, which is probably why the labels ignore the
> >over 35 set (besides the fact that we don't spend as much money).
> 
> Boy, I disagree with this. The over-35 set is the EASIEST to lead around by
> the nose. Just do some reunion tour (Kiss, Fleetwood Mac, Eagles, etc.) and
> watch the lemmings show up. Young people are much more independent record
> buyers. Who do you think is buying Judybats records, anyway? 40 year olds?
> C'mon.
> 

And I disagree with this.  But I did go see the KISS tour.  Twice.  I 
would've liked it better if they had made a new record first.  KISS is at 
least honest about the motivation: they need the money.

> >Enough ranting - like I said, I can do this for hours.
> 
> If you're going to spend that much time, please try to better think through
> what you're saying.
> 

Thanks so much for the kind words. :P

I don't know much about you, but I have had some experience in the industry 
and it hasn't been particularly pleasant.  Prehaps you have some first hand 
experience as well?

We've been courted by publishers, record labels, producers, and others 
over the years.  There was always some aspect to the deal that kept it 
from getting done.  Some people are willing to sign anything just to get 
a record out.  We're not.  Music has become a commodity, and musicians 
are the machines that manufacture it.

Kate is incredibly lucky to be in the situation she's in.

> - Don
> 
> 
>