Re: The never-ending Kate/Tori debate

[heisjohn@juno.com]

Marcel F G Rijs wrote:
>Again, I can't say much for the US situation, however I do understand 
>that
>there was indeed a certain effect *created* by the record company over
>there. ToriFans know that she was 'exported' to the UK, because Warner 
>knew
>she would be more easily accepted by the higher level of acceptance in
>Europe for experimental, 'alternative' if you will, music.
>What certainly is not true is that Tori was marketed in the US by 
>these
>B-sides releases- these were predominantly made in the UK. I can only
>recall "Crucify" and "Winter" being released in the US, (perhaps "Me 
>and a
>Gun as well), the latter being a limited edition that was so limited 
>that
>it is still available both in the US and in Europe, the former a 
>'regular'
>release, still available as well. 
>The collectability was created by releasing more singles in the UK, 
>which
>always happens, with any artist, BTW.

Which is exactly what I was trying to get across.  Atlantic sent Tori to
the UK because she failed miserably as a "soft-metal" artist in the late
80's.  (After her debut disc bombed in the US, all the good folks at
Atlantic must have spent a considerable amount of time trying to figure
out "Y Can't Tori SELL".)  If that's not a textbook marketing tactic, I
don't know what is!  

>Okay, I won't deny it, simply I know too little about it. But tell me 
>this:
>how would they have done it otherwise?? At the time, the general US 
>public
>was more "narrowminded" than these days, and you will have to admit 
>that
>the marketing (if it happened that way) worked. Tori Amos was one of 
>the
>artists who was at the forefront of a host of other female artists who 
>were
>not to be categorized easily. 

Sure -- not easily categorized after she was reinvented.  "Metal-Tori"
didn't sell.  Plain and simple.  If she did, do you honestly believe she
would have ever been repackaged and shipped off to try her luck with a
"more discriminating" European audience?  IMO, they couldn't sell her as
"Suzi Quatro" in the US, so they stripped her down and reassembled her as
"Kate Bush" in the UK.  It's Marketing 101!

>And then there's the very sensible reaction of  "S.Irani-lewis"
><MDA95SI@sheffield.ac.uk>:
>>
>>Marketing rarely has anything to do with the artist......you 
>>shouldn't hold the marketing managers limited imagination against 
>>her.......its fairly obvious she has one! :-)
>
>I rest my case.

An interesting observation -- but unfortunately, it's a little naive. 
Like it or not, marketing in the music business is *EVERYTHING*.  Back in
the late 60's, Jerry Kasenetz and Jeff Katz (Super K Productions) scored
an impressive string of top selling singles by the likes of 1910 Fruitgum
Company, Ohio Express and Crazy Elephant.  But the funny thing is -- none
of these groups actually existed!  Over the years, Super K employed
hundreds of very talented songwriters and session musicians who wrote and
played in groups that lived only as (flawlessly executed) marketing
concepts!! 

So now we know that great marketing ALONE can produce top-selling
material.  Can you think of an example where a "great" song went to the
top of the charts with NO marketing??

>Anyway, the marketing was not the altogether focus of this particular
>debate. My reaction was most importantly written to state that it's
>ridiculous to say that Tori Amos is no good - or at least not as good 
>a
>musician as Kate is. Fact is, no marketing concept is big enough to
>disguise the Fact  that Tori Amos is one damn fine musician. The 
>question
>is not if Tori Amos is as good as Kate Bush, I'd go so far as to ask 
>if
>Kate Bush is as good a musician as Tori Amos???

OK, I'll grant that Tori is a phenomenal musician.  Her piano playing is
particularly prodigious, but those lyrics -- ugh!  Way to many sexual and
pseudo-religious obsessions -- and the rest is so abstruse I've given up!
 (Oops, my American "narrowmindedness" is showing again...:))

Bottom-line, the difference between Kate and Tori?

Kate makes me numb :)

John