Re: Bjork - still :-(

[scasterg@cd.columbus.oh.us (Stuart Castergine)]

I'm gonna do a flame. I'm not proud of it, but I am but a weak vessel....


At  4:33 PM 12/2/93 -0500, Marcel Rijs wrote:
>
>Ahem,
> 
>Well then, after this ranting and raving of you all :), can I say
>a few words back now?
> 
>Well then here I go....
> 
>Alex Gibbs writes:
>> Remember r.m.g/love-hounds was not created just for discussing
>> Kate, as the FAQ says.
>XQze me for not reading the smallprint - in a document that never
>crossed my eyes btw. However, I find it very strange (to say but
>the least) that a subject like this can generate somuch discussion
>and all my previous postings none at all. But that's a small
>observation, just to illustrate the low-Kate content on this list
>when clearly things have been happening these last few weeks...

As they say in law, ignorance is no defense. If you have never read the FAQ
then you should just say "never mind" and shut up until you read it. Also,
the reason this generated so much discussion was your extremely mean,
spiteful tone. I don't know why I am bothering to write this, because you
will surely not recognize what I am talking about.

BTW, do you get the mailing list or tread the newsgroup? The newsgroup
sometimes has problems, but the mailing list has been really chugging along
lately. Lots of posts. I don't knwo what your volume requirement is, but if
I was getting too many more, it would get in the way of my other email.

> 
>A certain 'Johan' writes:
>> I don't mind you disliking Bjork, that's completely up to you,
>> but mixing her name into it is rather pathetic.
>I have to say about whom I talk, don't I?

Yes, but you don't have to make fun of her name. That is childish.

> 
>> You obviously don't know what it means nor how it's pronounced.
>That's very funny <ha-ha> since I have Scandinavian family. I never
>_pronounced_ her name on the list, did I? If I did, please show me
>where..... I just stated an association of words which can be
>concluded by anyone, well, anyone who can read, that is...

Great. I have italian family, but I don't speak italian. Am I missing a
gene or something?

The concept of rhyme is essentially auditory. Bjork and pork do *not*
rhyme, you idiot! (I didn't know that before this thread, but at least I
was bright enough not to put my foot in my mouth over it. *I* know I don't
understand the language). 

It is the same situation as cornice and spice. The endings are spelled the
same but they sound different. They *don't rhyme.*

[Foghorn Leghorn voice (ref. Warner Bros. cartoons, big rooster with a
southern good ol' boy accent)]
That boy, ah say, that boy's as sharp as a bowlin' ball.

> 
>> but it might help you to realize that your comments on Bjork
>> smells not only of provincialism, but of a small and scantily
>> informed mind in general.
>...and _you_ didn't *read* my message, mister. So _who_ is in the
>possession of a small and scantily informed mind?

Yes he did. You are.

> BTW attacks on me
>personally because I happen to have a different opinion about
>something (and yes, I do acknowledge that my opinions are put in
>strong terms - but then, holding my tongue is something I _never_
>do)

A fool who keeps silent may be mistaken for a wise man. But a fool who
speaks will be known by all for what he is.

>are very _very_ uncivilised. _Don't_ try to demean me, it won't
>work.

Oh, I would not dream of demeaning you. You do a fine job of demeaning yourself.

> 
>And finally, this one really takes the cake:
> 
>Stu Castergine writes:
>> Does anybody find the repeated references to Bjork's appearance
>> disconcerting?
>OK so I should have put that remark on the _end_ of the list. GOD,
>do I have to spell _everything_ out?

Can I take my cake and eat it too?

Please, show me that you can spell something out. You did not make only one
reference to her appearance, you brought it up at least three times in the
course of your message, probably more than you mentioned any other single
point. Any reader would see that it was more than a parenthetical element
to your argument.

I used it as a launching point for a general trend I had noticed. I didn't
refer to your post again. Sorry if you felt it was a personal attack. Do
you deny success of women in the music industry is heavily affected by
physical appearance?

>...
>> What if Kate weighed 350 lb.? What if Tori had a face that would
>> scare small children? Why do we demand physical beauty from
>> female musicians?
>I wouldn't care, to be precise.

If that is true, I am proud of you. But I DON'T BELIEEEEVE YOU!!

>I WOULDN'T CARE, once again, for
>those of you who obviously couldn't read my previous message.

Ah, I see. You don't hate all ugly musicians. You just hate this particular
ugly musician and felt that it was necessary to make a point of the fact
that she is ugly (which fact, according to many here, is not true, although
I acknowledge that perception of beauty is highly subjective).

> Do I
>really have to put down a list of ugly women I have records of?

That would be interesting.

> I
>won't

Awwwwww.... I dare you! I double dare you!

> but let me say this: putting words into my mouth _can_ be
>done, but I _do_ tend to stick up for myself.

You should find somebody better to stick up for you. What words did I put
in your mouth? Who said she was ugly and looked like a pig? Who called her
a tart? You started it, bud. If we were talking about a model or a
prostitute, physical attractiveness would be a valid concern, but we are
talking about a musician. *You* are the one who brought physical appearance
into the conversation, and in quite a negative fashion, I might add.

The tart comment is of course, not strictly related to appearance. It is
just a mean-spirited little slur.

> 
>Greg O'Rear writes:
>> "But I don't have to look like a model; I'm just a computer
>> nerd!"
>Let me propose: "But I don't have to read someone messages, I can
>make up texts myself!"

Zoooooom. The sound of the entire conversation flying right over Marcel's head.

> 
>To conclude:
>I still hate 'er, I won't change my mind unless I have reason to,

I am sure it never entered anyone's mind to change yours. Yours is
obviously not flexible enough for that.

Why do you choose the word "hate?" It is such an ugly word. There are many
musicians whose music I dislike, but I would never say that I "hate" them.
Hate is an ugly, violent emotion and it should be reserved for things that
are truly worth hating. A musician whom you don't know personally, who is
producing music the best she knows how, who has never done anything to harm
you, is a poor object for hate.

>and my words are (possibly) stated bluntly, because I am just that
>way.

Blunt, like a dull, ineffective tool.

 I don't really care what people say about me, but I think it's
>rather childish to flame someone for stating his opinion,
>especially he's asked to amongst others, who then don't but just
>react on what one says.

Hey, there is a difference between stating your opinion and venting your
spleen. You were guilty of the latter. So am I, right now. At least I know
the difference.  Your tone and language were hateful and abusive. I have
never heard Bjork/Sugarcubes and never seen her. I have no opinion
whatsoever about the woman and *I* was offended.

If it was my sister you had been talking about and we were face-to-face, I
would have smashed your pointy little head in ('cause I'm not a pacifist
like you. Ha ha (that's a laugh of disbelief)).

>Once again, there is a mailing list for 'er, use it!
> 
>Hope the subject Kate will appear on this list every now and then
>as of today. (Well, I can dream, can't I??)
> 

I do not know. Can you? Dreaming takes a little imagination.


>Marcel Rijs
>Den Haag  Netherlands

Where they all tilt at windmills. Rocinante, onward!

> 
>PS Hey! Why not change "Love-Hounds" into "Blood-Hounds"?
>..............................................................
>"As the people here grow colder..." - Kate Bush, - do you know
>which song? (I do...)
>.....................

Yes. Sigh. We probably all do. 

I would never claim that what I just wrote was anything other than a
moderately caustic flame, but you trying to admonish me or anyone for *our*
lack of warmth is hypocrisy of the highest degree.

I posted an article about the unfair treatment of women in the music
industry and all you seemed to take out of it was that I might be
criticizing your post (I was, but it wasn't my main topic, just a
jumping-off point and I didn't think I made a big deal about it. You would
have been smart to gracefully keep your mouth shut).

Have a nice day :-)  [insincere store-clerk smiley]

--
scasterg@delphi.com == Stuart Castergine                          ---
"And maybe I ain't used to maybes smashing in a cold room, cutting |/
my hands up everytime I touch you. Maybe..." -- Tori Amos          |\