Re: Tori--What do you really think?

[chrisw@fciad2.bsd.uchicago.edu (chris williams)]

Chris here,

>To open a topic which could conceivably start the biggest flamewars this
>group has ever seen...

    Nah. You can't have a really big flamewar without |>oug and IED.

>Tori Amos.  Now, I realize many people love to pick on her here, but I
>attribute that to sheer annoyance at how often she and Kate are compared and
>to the fact that, well, this is "gaffa".

   They may not be apples and oranges, but they are certainly two very 
different kinds of apples. Johnathan vs. Granny Smith, or some such.

   Really, the only people who seriously *compare* Kate and Tori are
"Music Journalists" (there hasn't been any real music writing since
the death of Trouser Press), Record Company Squids and other professional
pigeon-holers. This sort of nonsense usuall backfires. I'm not sure
if Kris and Peter of Homeground have given _Little Earthquakes_ a fair
shake, after the hypeing of Tori as "the American Kate Bush."

>My personal views are that Tori is *at least* as talented, original, and
>brilliant as Kate Herself.  This is because there are times when I'm not in
>the mood to listen to Kate, but I cannot recall any times when I haven't
>been in the mood to listen to Tori.

    This is a somewhat bogus criteria. How many times a day do you want
to experience the emotional catharsis of _The Ninth Wave_. Any time
I sit down and listen to it tears well in my eyes, and I get goosebumps.

It can get embarrassing when listening to a walkman on the bus.

>  Tori also pleases me with her albums more;

    Frankly, "pleasing" me isn't very important either, in evaluating
the worth of an artist's work. Paula Abdul "pleases" a great many people
by not challenging them.

>granted, there's only one album so far (besides WKTR), but there's
>only one song out of twelve that I find less than amazing ("Me and a Gun",
>for anyone who cares), whereas there are usually more than 1/12 that I find
>inferior on Kate's albums. 

    _Me and a Gun_ "less than amazing"?!? Maybe you need to see her in
concert...

    It was probably the hardest song for her to write, and the one that
most clearly points out the *differences* between Kate and Tori. Kate
could *never* write write a song that revealed so much of herself,
that left her so vunerable, so emotionally naked...and to have the
guts to perform it *every single night*... 

    Kate, by her Catholic school education, insulated family life, 
the cultural differences between England and America, has an entirely
different way of expressing her emotions than Tori. You have to dig
deep into Kates's music when trying to understand her feelings. Tori
_wants_ you to know her.

> I think Tori's a much more talented and original
>pianist, making up in musical invention what she lacks in Kate's arty
>lyricism and fancy.

    Tori has had formal training at a conservatory. I guess we can
assume that she has had counterpoint, harmony, etc. Kate started
playing piano as an escape from violin lessons she didn't want. The
legend has Kate's Dad showing her middle C on the piano, and she
figured the rest out herself.

    In some ways this has made Kate the more original composer. Not
encumbered by the strictures of a classical musical education, blab,
blab, blab...

    I wish everyone could have heard _Sat In Your Lap_ in the context
of the charts at the time. It was, especially at the time, a stunning
departure from the rest of the music world. It (and the rest of _The
Dreaming_) are the result of Kate's loss of touch with the world of
popular music. In interviews at the time, Kate seemed positively
baffled by the critical response, and the album's lack of success.

>Granted, Kate has a certain literary merit, but Tori's music is equally
>fascinating, just quite different.  And *nobody* does covers like she does.

   Take a listen to some of Hal Wilner's compilations. Check out Tom
Waits' "Hi Ho, Hi Ho" on _Stay Awake_ and repeat that with a straight
face. 

>Now before you brand me TRAITOR, recall the times I have praised Kate on
>this newsgroup and recall that I love her at least as much as you do. 

    No, you are not a traitor,
    Yes, you have raised praise unto Her name,
    No, you do not love her at least as much as I do. (Call me and we'll
                                                          discuss it.
                                                        (312) 508-KATE

> The
>point of this posting is to see what you *really* think of Tori, as opposed
>to what you say in jest.  And before you say "go to reallydeepthoughts",
>consider that I want the Katefan's view of Tori.  I know the Torifan's view
>already.

    I am a kard-karrying Katefan of long standing. I am also a Torifan
since seeing her in concert. I am also a Janefan (Siberry, you heathan.)
And a Sarahfan... 

    Its been said that a man cannot truely love a woman, if he does
not, to some extent, love all women. Being a fan of Kate' music will
open you up to listening to other female artists, if only to try
to recapture that same joy of discovery that you felt when you found
Kate's music. I cannot recall how many posts to Love-Hounds have been
the "...Wow, this is *GREAT* ...are there any more like her?" 

    Kate's music opened me up musically to a number of other artists
and increased my desire for a "female perspective" on all things.

>Thank you in advance for (a) flaming maturely and not childishly, and (b)
>for answering a serious question which is not intended (but is expected) to
>cause an uproar.

    Tori is a better musician than Kate. k.d. lang is a better singer
(really) than either. Jane Siberry is a better writer than Kate or Tori.

     These things do not affect the fact that Kate is my favorite 
musician/singer/songwriter.

>Drewcifer
>-- 
>***************************************************************************
>** Andrew David Simchik, registered Scorpio ************* SCHNOPIA! *******
>***************************************************************************
>as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu

                                 Chris Williams of
                                   Chris'n'Vickie of Chicago
                                      katefans@chinet.chi.il.us
                                         chrisw@fciad2.bsd.uchicago.edu

Me: We drove here from Kansas City.
Del: My, what intrepid Fans...