Re: Why I oppose the new mailing list

[katefans@chinet.chi.il.us (Chris n Vickie)]

Vickie here.

In article <Feb.4.01.38.50.1992.21268@athos.rutgers.edu> jessica@athos.rutgers.EDU (jessica) writes:
>
>There are some things about the "warmroom" list that I like, and some
>that i don't. what i like is that it will (i expect) have the usual
>atmosphere that a mailing list has that a news group doesn't, which is
>just some sort of feeling of "warmth" or closeness, or just comfort, i
>suppose becuase for some people at some times, it's easier to write to
>a miailing list, where becuase you're pretty much aware of who else is
>on the list and who'll be reading your message, you may feel more
>comfortable. What I *don't* like, is that it *won't* have all the good
>things that i like about news groups, which are the open atmosphere,
>the very public advertising of it's very existence. *So* many people
>come across the group just by wondering "waht is rec.music.gaffa"; I'd
>hate to see that lost.

There's no reason why that should happen. For one thing, it's not a
replacement for rec.music.gaffa (though it certainly will be for some
people) but a supplement to it. If it's mentioned in the monthly post
and mentioned every now and then by subscribers, it will be known about.

No one thinks that gaffa will collapse without our presence or our
writings, far from it, it will keep the flame wars to a minimum (at
least in regards to the question of rudeness) and gaffa can continue
being the Kate Bush information server it is.

Gaffa and warmroom can co-exist side by side.

Something like this has been needed for a long time, but I do regret
that it came out of bitterness and flames.

>>So whenever a flame war starts that doesn't interest me, I just ignore it.  
>
>Same here. 

I've tried, but I have a hard time doing it. I tend to ache and get angry
when someone is rude to someone else, especially if it's a fellow Kate fan.

>I did subscribe, and i've posted there (though it never made it to the
>list as the disk the mailing list file is on has been trashed, it
>seems, so i'll repsend it when it's back) that I hope we can cultivate
>a really good atmosphere, and then *leave* the mailing list to bring
>that atmosphere back to gaffa. 

I don't see that happening at all. I see no reason why warmroom can't
go on for years. Besides, why bring that good atmosphere back to gaffa
when it will only get muck poured on it again? No, gaffa will go on, and
warmroom will go on and they'll each have their separate purposes.

>As several people have pointed out, gaffa *started* as a mailing list.
>I think this was a HUGE influence in making it the sort of news group
>it is/has been. The atmosphere of the mailing list - the regular
>posting by several truly interested/knowledgeable/talkative people -
>continued here on gaffa and supported the inquiries of new people.
>That atmosphere is what's been missing lately, so I'm hoping the
>mailing list will have that (it already does, from the looks of it)
>and that in a few weeks or so the people there will be willing to
>attempt to merge that back into the newsgroup. 

Why merge something that's needed and wanted by a lot of people? In just
a few days time, the list is already to 50 subscribers and who knows
how many more will join in the coming days and weeks? 

>ps: i want to add that I too don't like the idea of poeple being
>actively excluded from a mailing list that I'm on. Jorn, could you
>clarify that? have you/will you actually exclude anyone for any
>reasons? You've a right to, i'm just not sure I'll want to be a part
>of it.

As much as the the people opposing this list cry "Fascism" and "Freedom
of Speech" they really have no concept of what is going on and why this
list is needed. The issue is rudeness, not diversity of opinions. I think
Jorn has been deeply affected by the warm, wonderful atmosphere of Ecto
and aches to have that same atmosphere in a Kate Bush forum. He knows it's
not going to happen in gaffa, because of the people who are so caught up
in their "right to be rude" mindset and who don't *get* it. It's only a
handful of people I would suspect, but they have soured Jorn on the whole
group. I don't know if Jorn means to keep people out. Personally, I wouldn't
even mind if Cynthia Rosas joined, as long as she brought her intellectual
and humourous side with her and left her sarcastic and rude side in gaffa.
Disagreement is fine, rudeness is not acceptable. Not to me, not to Jorn.
Diversity of opinion is fine and it's healthy, but to be effective it has
to be tinged with consideration of other people's feelings, not rammed
down their throats and upside their heads. 

Vickie