Re: Let me repeat myself...

[caen!bsbbs!cynthia@harvard.harvard.edu (Cynthia Rosas)]

deadman@garnet.berkeley.edu (Ben Haller) writes:
> 
> In article <m0khREw-000238C@chinet.chi.il.us> katefans@chinet.chi.il.us
>    (Chris n Vickie) writes:
> >a) I DIDN'T SAY that labels themselves were "censorship"
> >     ^^^^^^
> Well, I don't have the original post any more, but I think we
> disagree on more than just this, so I'll skip it, that's not
> really important compared to the difference of opinion we
> still have.
 
Careful, you're on Sacred Ground here...:-)

> >c) Labels ----CAN---->LEAD---->TO---->CENSORSHIP
> >                      ^^^^
> Sure, so can any human being making any choice about what they
> want to see, hear, talk about, sell, produce, etc.  Choice is
> a natural part of life.  I think there are other things that
> are much more likely to lead to censorship than labelling.  Like
> implicit faith in the government, Christianity and other noxious
> religions, etc.  These are the things I worry about.  If somebody
 [excellent essay deleted for space consideration)

I tend to agree.  I think the labelling is not as big a
problem as some may think.  And I think I may have stated in
another post, that while a store who refuses to carry a
particular product due to labels or public pressure is a wimpy
group of fascist pigs that should be the first ones to have
their backs against the walls when the revolution comes (a la
Hitchhiker's Guide), I think it's their right to be so, as it
is my right to NOT shopthere, and to write and tell management
why I won't shop there anymore.

> force on another person's property.  I think Vickie's attitude is
> hypocritial inasmuch as it is akin to the exact kind of pseudo-
> censorship she is trying to speak out against.  She's saying "I have
> an opinion, which is that other people's opinions are bad.  Since
> my opinion is more right than theirs, I would like them to stop
> exercising their right to self-determination and start acting
> according to my opinion." 

Um, you haven't asked her about "feeling the magic" have you?
:]

>   If you really want to prevent censorship from becoming a reality,
> I recommend you:
>   1. Join the ACLU
>   2. Do everything you can to discredit Sen. Jesse Helms

Err, I heard he likes sheep in bondage.

>   3. Realize that the NEA is *real* censorship that is happening
>      today, and write to every political figure you can think of
>      and tell them so.
>   4. Don't vote ever again, or at least vote Libertarian

Well, I know voting seems pretty futile, but I'd never advise
anyone to give it up altogether.  What's the Libertarian Party
stand for? And against? Email please.

>   5. Speak out against the "gag rule" *whether or not* you're pro-choice

Absolutely.  What a crock!  I can't wait for that revolution
to come, cuz somebody needs to have their eyelashes singed for
that stupid idea.

>   6. Vote your Senator or Rep. out if they voted for the flag-
>      burning amendment (it only lost by 4 votes, isn't that more
>      scary than the PMRC by a *long* shot?)

That's mighty damn scary.  I'm also saving the vote rollcalss
from Clarence Thomas' confirmation vote, and ANY votes to do
with abortion.

>   7. Condemn the press black-out during the Gulf war and the
>      disinformation fed the public by the governement every day
 
aWelll, I have mixed feeling about that one.  Doesn't the
press ever understand that there are some questions that
cannot be answered right at the time?  It seems to me that
some things that it's okay for us to know now, regarding
military strategy and such, would have been a real secut=rity
breach, err, that's security breach at the time.

>  8. Send your child to a private school if you can possibly afford it
>   etc., etc., etc.
>   and most of all, *support* the rights of the PMRC and record stores
> to do whatever they damn well please, while exercising that same
> right yourself at all times.
>   Of course, most of these assume one believes in the morality (not
> to mention the effectiveness) of working within the system (voting, etc.)
> I, on the other hand, just sit back and laugh like hell.
 
Hee hee, I have no children, thankfully.  I sort of believe in
working within the system to make life a living hell for those
who really buy into it.  
This brings to mind some sleazy talk show (Geraldo, perhaps)
where the KKK wanted to buy some airtime on a cable channel to
espouse their repugnant views.  Several do-gooder liberals
were appalled, but an ACLU guy was there, to defend the KKK's
right to free speech.  I agree.  The problem in a free society

The thing is that while freedom is great, there's a downside.  You don't
want the downside, live in a closed society.  Less crime
probably, and you'll have no KKK marching in parades. But,
what about free speech?

Anyways, I think your post was really great and I like a
person with well thought out opinions, evn if I may not agree
100%, though I think you're mostly right on the money.
 

----
Cynthia Rosas <cynthia@bsbbs.UUCP> <{n8emr|nstar}!bluemoon!bsbbs!cynthia>
The Big Sky BBS (+1 614 864 1198)