Re: The Sensual World: maturing or icing?

[aurs01!aurxc3!whitcomb@mcnc.org (Jonathan Whitcomb)]

jeffy@lewhoosh.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) writes:
>whitcomb%aurgate@mcnc.org (Jonathan Whitcomb) writes:  
>>If Bush
>>wants to write literary commentary, fine, but I (and I expect most people) 
>>buy an album to enjoy the music.

>Where has she written a song that contains any sort of "literary commentary"?
>Are you saying that she should use no allusions in her lyrics?  Or only 
>allusions that *you* are educated enough to understand?

Did you read all of my original posting?  Education really has nothing to
do with being familiar with an obscure reference, unless you are insinuating 
that being educated means having read every book and seen every film that 
Bush writes about.  And I already stated that I don't expect to pick up
on every reference made.  My comment was that when the fundimental theme
of a song requires the listener to be familiar with a specific, not well
known piece of fiction, many listeners will be alienated.  I would 
expect a far greater number of people to be familiar with the characters
and plot of Wuthering Heights, as it is based on classic literature that
was made into two popular film versions.

[wrt The Ninth Wave]
>>A group of song fragments, loosely linked by an uninteresting concept and 
>>no coherent musical theme, and the listener is supposed to accept it as 
>>High Art?  

>a) song fragments?  What the hell is this supposed to mean?  What do you say 
>to all of the people who enjoy many of the songs on TNW without realizing that
>there's a theme tying them together?  "That's not a song you like; that's just
>a song fragment.  It's not valid for you to enjoy that song because it isn't
>one."

The album credits list the titles of the tracks in TNW as segments of a
larger piece, not as individual songs.  It seems valid to consider them
as elements of the concept, rather than songs:  I believe that is how
Bush intended them to be recognized.  I call them fragments because most of 
them don't stand up well on their own (i.e. they require the framework of 
the album).  That doesn't mean you should or should not enjoy them, of 
course.  Why would I object if you enjoy them?  

>b) okay, you find the concept uninteresting.  I happen to think it's
>fascinating.  

Wonderful!  Perhaps I would have been more interested in the concept
if the music had been able to draw me in.

>c) why shouldn't we accept it as "High Art"?  Opera is accepted as such, 
>yet the themes running through them tend toward exhaustion through overuse.

That's a pretty hefty comparison!

>>This kind of pretention went out of style in the 70's.

>Um, it did?  

>"Smallcreep's Day"	Mike Rutherford
>"Pros and Cons of Hitchiking"	Roger Waters
>"The Final Cut"		Pink Floyd
>"Radio KAOS"	Waters
>"Operation:  Mindcrime"		Queensryche
>"The Ninth Wave"	Kate Bush
>"Misplaced Childhood"	Marillion
>"New York"	Lou Reed
>"Skylarking"	XTC
>"White City:  A Novel"		Pete Townshend

>Gee, it wasn't so hard for me to name 10 concept albums released in
>the 80's, and I know there are a lot more out there.  (such as the 
>Husker Du concept album, whose name I can't think, but I know about)
>The point is that concept albums/rock operas did not go out with the 70s.

Most of the examples you site are by 60's and 70's artists who have 
carried over into the 80's.  I don't know much about about Queensryche or
Marillion, but considering that they are Metal bands, and Metal
hasn't fundimentally changed since the 70's (well, the clothes are
different and they take themselves much more seriously), I'll lump them 
in that category.  Skylarking is hardly a concept album (as much as Todd 
Rundgren tried to make it so), linked only by a general summertime mood.  
The Husker Du album I believe you are referring to would probably be 
Zen Arcade, or Warehouse: Songs and Stories.  In the case of Zen Arcade, 
it was written and recorded in a marathon 2 day session, so I think it 
differs greatly in character from the 70's monoliths that were 
written and planned out over the course of several months.  Warehouse is 
a pretty loose concept, if you want to call it that, and the songs work 
well on their own.  But I will stand by my premise that the concept 
album peaked in the 70's, and was out of style by the 80's.  Just because 
something has gone out of style doesn't mean that some people don't still 
do it.  But I think people who wear bell-bottoms and leisure suits look a 
little silly, don't you?

>And it's pretentious to claim that they're all worthless as "Art."  Who
>died and made you Critic from Hell?

Hey, I love some of those 70's concept albums (Lamb Lies Down on Broadway,
Ziggy Stardust and Animals come to mind).  The medium had just become a 
tired cliche by 1980.

Game Theory's "Lolita Nation" is another 80's concept album, but half
the fun is that they are laughing at the joke along with you.

>>Sure, her fans will eat this stuff up, but it won't help to expand
>>her audience.  I would never have believed it if someone told me
>>that Bush could turn me off after The Dreaming, but this did it.

>I hate to point this out, but "Running Up That Hill" certainly expanded
>Kate's audience more than any single from _The Dreaming_.  Not every
>song on an album will make a good single.  There's room for something like
>"Waking the Witch" the sound-effects and noise of which fit perfectly within
>the framework of TNW.  

You took my comment out of context.  I was referring to TNW.  The reason
that none of those songs work as singles is because they were never intended
to stand on their own.  Running up that Hill was a moderately successful
single because it was dancable and had a hook, not because most listeners 
knew (or cared) what the song was about.  Although I don't care much
for the song, I can understand that Bush wanted more commercial exposure,
so who could blame her for going for it?

>>The Dreaming worked because Bush added all the detail to songs
>>that were strong to begin with.  On The Ninth Wave all we got
>>was detail. 

>Okay, we'll take away the sonar pings from "Under Ice" and see if it's still
>a great song.  What do you know?!  It is!

Under Ice is a pretty sorry excuse for a song on its own.  It seems to
have been intended as a transitional piece.  That drawn out wail at
the end makes me cringe.

Look, I admire Bush for trying different ideas, and I hope she continues
to explore.  It's just that her recent direction has lost me.  Reading
this digest indicates that I'm not the only one.

>>Remember, Bush's
>>earlier work was usually written before she entered the studio.  Now
>>she composes in the studio.  Very different process, and I think the
>>reason I don't relate to her recent work.

>Yes, but _The Dreaming_ was composed in the studio, and the songs did not 
>start out as simple, piano-based compositions.  

Most of the songs on TD had been recorded as home demos before Bush went 
into the studio, and then re-recorded.  It's amazing how much a second
draft can improve a song.

>>I don't expect
>>to pick up every reference, but when a whole song is based on one
>>specific piece of generally unknown fiction, I don't buy it.  A
>>reference to "Wuthering Heights" will be more generally recognized.

>For what seems to be the billionth time, you don't need to know everything
>about an obscure piece of fiction (or semi-non-fiction like "Book of Dreams")
>to "understand" and enjoy these songs.  

I love literate pop music.  It is one of Bush's great appeals.  I am 
concerned that lately she has been working so hard on this side of
her writing that other elements have suffered.  Her earlier references
seemed effortless.  Recently the references seem strained.  I know
the temptation to write a song that directly relates to a book you 
have just read, but the real skill lies in writing a song that
evokes the same feelings from the listener that the songwriter got
from the book without requiring the listener to have also read the
book.  Bush used to be able to do this.

For a long time, Bush was able to write songs that were musically
dazzling, thought provoking and stimulating.  These are high standards
for anyone to live up to.  It sounds to me that she's started to get
self conscious about it.  She seems more concerned about impressing 
than entertaining.  Bush doesn't have a thing in the world to prove 
to me.  I look forward to her new album.  I hope that in the future 
she will ignore her self imposed restraints on her writing and just let go.

-Jonathan
whitcomb%aurgate@mcnc.org