Re: KaTe imitators

[decwrl!well.sf.ca.us!well!padraigm@uunet.UU.NET (Patrick McFarland)]

In article <4326@csccat.cs.com> csccat!larry@uunet.UU.NET (Larry Spence) writes:>
>>First, as to the JaNe Siberry's wannabeism, 
>
>How cool... "JaNe" as a takeoff on "KaTe" in an argument as to why she's
>not a Kate wannabe.  Aren't you missing a smiley there? %)
 
Nah, I wanted to see if anybody got it - Congratulations!  (can't make
things TOO simple, ya know) :>
 
 
>>although I love certain of
>>her songs, On the Beach, in particular, and I feel that no amount of
>>criticism can take away the originality of these pieces, I can see how
>>JaNe's material could be taken for imitation, and I think THAT is just
>>the fear that results from hearing ANY woman express her TRUE views..
>
>Uh, I missed something here, how did you get to that conclusion?  If I
>think that Jane (er, JaNe) is a little Kate-derived, ergo I _fear her expression
>of her views_?
 
Ok, ok, I'll admit I was in somewhat of an altered sate, er state, when I
wrote this (actually I was just winding down from a good rant on 
alt.slack ;))  The key words here are "I think" - translation:  IMHO.  This
is not a logical argument, just an expression of what I feel to be true.  If
you WANT a logical argument, I can outline one for ya:
 
P1) In a patriarchal society, women are often misunderstood.
P2) What people don't understand, they fear.
P3) We live in a patriarchal society.
P4) A group of people which is feared is stereotyped (taking away the
        individual members' identities) in order to render it an object of
        humor.  (humor covers up the fear)
P5) Art is an expression of individual identity.
P6) Kate and Jane are artists.
P7) Kate and Jane are women.
1)  In a patriarchal society, women are often feared.   ; P1, P2
2)  In our society, women are often feared.             ; 1, P3
3)  In our society, women are often stereotyped.        ; 2, P4
4)  In our society, Kate and Jane often have their      ; P7, 3
        individual identities taken away.
5)  In our society, Jane's art is often disregarded.    ; P5, 4
        (Kate's too, for that matter)
6)  In our society, Jane is often regarded as a Kate
        imitator.                                       ; 4, 5
 
.. or some such.  Please understand that I am not accusing *you* personally
of fearing the expression of Jane's views, but you asked!
 
>                What are you folks on the WELL smoking nowadays? %)
 
Bahahahahaaaaaaa!  *I'll* never tell!
 
 
>you'll recall, I posted a big-two-thumbs-up reviewette of Diamanda Galas'
>latest release, which is nothing but 75 minutes of "viewpoint expression."
%) 
>Compared to _that_, Jane is pretty sugar-coated, don't you think?
 
C'mon!  Don't overreact!  I like Jane's music mainly because it is in such
a light vein (I wouldn't use the word "sugar-coated").  This is just an
expression of her basically fun-loving personality.  There are times when
I like deep heavy stuff, but other times when I like to indulge in very
unserious fanciful fun sounds, and Jane knows HOW!
 
 
>>Secondly, as re Happy Rhoades, I love her music, and I think I can explain
>>this misunderstanding:  KaTe grew up in an evironment where
>>one was forced into self-reliance. 
>
>Huh?  My incomplete knowledge of Kate's life is that her family was not
>poor, and that she got an advance from EMI and plenty of support for her
>artistic development when she was a teenager.  She worked very hard, but
>was hardly a starving artist type.
 
You misunderstand.  In *this* case, I'm talking about the general social
environment in the U.K. as opposed to here -- not individual circumstances.
There, it is generally supposed that a child will work to the best of
his/her abilities to excel in some field of endeavor, whereas here, the
pressure is simply to conform.  Of course, the prime piece of support for
this statement is an analysis of the educational systems of the two
countries:  Here, EVERY child is expected to attend 12 years of school, get
a "standard" education, and then (if the family is rich enough) attend a
larger version of the detaining area to put together the contacts he will
need to "succeed in life".  The system there is quite different - investigate
it.
 
 
>>It is a happy accident of karma that
>>this divine spirit was practically ordained to become a musical virtuosity
>>of the highest order. 
>
>I thought the whole thing about karma was that it's _not_ accidental?  Did
>you get the above line from a Yanni or Kitaro press release or something?
%)
 
Nope!  Karma is almost by definition accidental.  If all existence were pre-
determined, there would be no point to it.
 
>>If it relies on KaTe's rather
>>heavily, well so be it - I myself rely on a goddess.
>
>First you say she's fighting against conformism to express her own art
>(uh, Art), but then it's OK if she "relies heavily" on the work of Kate?
>Non sequitur alert!
 
Yeah!  It's OK to take inspiration from other artists.  I just wrote a poem
that has a verse that paraphrases one of Blake's, and a song I wrote last
year has a tiny section ripped directly from one of Kate's songs, because it
FIT.  What of it???
 
 
>BTW, KERA (Dallas public radio) played a Happy tune last night.  I don't
>recall the title, but the lyrics mentioned Phobos repeatedly.  It was
>pretty good, but definitely recalled a slightly Kate-ish backing track with
>Joni Mitchell singing through an octave divider (hoo boy, I hear the
>flamethrowers being started up now! %).  The evening DJ, Liza Richardson,
>just eats stuff like this up, so I would expect her to give
>Happy decent airplay.
 
Hmmmmm, I think I'll leave this to the propane professionals :-)
 
 
>>"A thousand slimy things lived on, and so did I"-STC
>
>Yeah, well, Sam Coleridge was smoking opium...
 
Pardon this, the exact couplet is:
        And a thousand thousand slimy things
        Lived on, and so did I.
 
vi SUCKS!!!!!!!!
 
 
>>"If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing"-Me
>
>Maybe, but these overblown "Female Singer/Deity X is the embodiment of
>artistic purity" foamings serve to make me, for one, very skeptical.
>There is such a thing as hyping something so much that people get
>unrealistic expectations, y'know!  That's doing the artist a disservice,
>IMHO.
 
You're absolutely correct.  Don't listen to Happy Rhodes.  After all, she's
nothing but a KaTe imitator.  You won't find anything new there.
 
BTW, I am lying.  In fact, I'm lying right now.
 
Pat
 
r .signature damn^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H
"And a thousand thousand slimy things lived on, and so did I"-STC
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro"-HST
"You're either part of the solution or you're part of the precipitate-Wilbur
"If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing"-Me
-- 
"And a thousand thousand slimy things lived on, and so did I"-STC
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro"-HST
"You're either part of the solution or you're part of the precipitate-Wilbur
"If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing"-Me