Re: Reaching Out (was Re: The album's cover + Melody Maker)

[James Smith <munnari!cc.nu.oz.au!CCJS@uunet.UU.NET>]

Path: cc!ccjs
From: CCJS@cc.nu.oz (James Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gaffa
Subject: Re: Reaching Out (was Re: The album's cover + Melody Maker)
Date: 19 Nov 89 17:13:34 -1000
References: <8911130835.7827@munnari.oz.au> <8911160632.AA07535@GAFFA.MIT.EDU>
Organization: University of Newcastle
Lines: 101

>> What has Kate's style to do with the beauty of her work?

Stewart Evans writes:

> How can the style _not_ affect how good or bad it is?  The style in
> which a song is written & performed is just as much a part of it as
> its production, or musicianship, or lyrical profundity, or whatever.
> Perhaps what you meant to imply is that an entire genre shouldn't
> be condemned in this way (e.g., "all reggae sucks"), and I agree with
> that.  But if the genre is particularly cliche-ridden, and the song
> largely follows those cliches rather than varying them or breaking
> them, the style can definitely weaken the song.  

But preference for style is really just opinion, not fact.  A C&W fan
might say HM sucks, and vice versa; it means nothing.  Each style is
capable of producing great music, and personal preferences don't affect
how great that music is.  Apples and pears.  And you can't rate one
style against another, you can only express a preference for one over
another.

Rap music is a style that is very repetitive and very cliche-ridden.
Does that make it a bad style, or just different?  Personally I don't
like rap, but I don't label it as 'shit'.

Jon Drukman writes:

> If Kate did
> a song with bone-crunching guitars and huge drums and a nasty guitar
> solo in the middle, wouldn't it be called "heavy metal"?  [...] Would
> we not have a
> right to say that it's utter shit in this case?  I'm not suggesting
> that it would be crap, but I certainly don't like many songs done in
> the heavy metal genre. 

But aren't you still just expressing an opinion?  Aren't you just saying
"I don't like heavy metal, therefore it is shit"?  And if you are so
narrow minded, are you really qualified to judge how good or bad any
song is?

--

>> you are
>> putting forth your own opinion as though it were the absolute truth,
>> albiet unintentionally.

Stewart Evans writes:

> It is my opinion that people on the net take this kind of thing
> way too personally.  What else would Jon mean when he says "Reaching
> Out is horrible", other than his own opinion?  The very nature of
> such a statement is a value judgment, and therefore subjective.
> Why do people get so upset about these things?  

See his posting.  But point taken; I do tend to be too sensitive about
such things.  Mind you, how many people do say such things without
at least mentally qualifying it with an "in my opinion"?  It's a great
way of producing very narrow-minded people.

>> It is well produced, has a beautiful melody, is arranged beautifully, and
>> features great performances from those who made it.  

> See, even you do it!  Is calling the song "beautiful" any less an opinion
> than calling it "horrible".  I think it's ridiculously awkward to expect
> people to qualify absolutely everything that isn't verifiable fact
> as opinion, when it should be quite obvious from context.

Arh, but this was a statement of fact, not an opinion!  Perhaps I should
have said "perfectly" rather then "beautifully," then it would not have 
been seen as an opinion, but a truism. :-)  (And perhaps I should have
put a smiley after it.)

--

Jon Drukman writes:

>>> My personal opinion is that Kate is at her best when telling us stories.

>> you are putting forth your own opinion as though it were the absolute
>> truth, albiet unintentionally.

> You are a complete illiterate.  Does it not say IN THE VERY LINE
> YOU QUOTED that "MY PERSONAL OPINION IS..."

This was a reply to a reply to a reply to your original message, in
which you did not say any such thing.  If you had said "IMHO, Reaching
Out is horrible", I would not have posted, but you did not.
Perhaps *you* should have read more carefully.

> [Reaching Out...]  You can love it, I will leave it.

Which is fair enough.  But if you are going to hold opinions so contrary
to others who read this net, perhaps you should be a bit more careful
as to how you express them.

Jim

-- 
James Smith          | When a man fell into his anecdotage
Computing Centre     | it was a sign for him to retire from
Newcastle University | the world.
ccjs@cc.nu.oz.au     |                 -- Benjamin Disraeli