yet aNOTher nice long interview With kate buSh In love-hounds!!

[IED0DXM%UCLAMVS.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu]

The following is an interview with Kate Bush by _Hot Press_,
one of the few British music publications which seldom or never
shows up in the States. The interview was conducted by an anonymous and
highly obnoxious male reporter for the magazine in November of 1985.

     [ |>oug thinks that the *Hot Press* interview is one of the the
       best interviews with Kate he has ever seen.  The interviewer
       may be obnoxious, but he clearly likes Kate a lot and he gets
       some very revealing answers.  |>oug bought six copies when it
       came out...  -- |>oug ]
 
As the editor of this posting, IED has taken the liberty of
commenting once in a while. That's the prerogative of the editor,
so grin and bear it.

                    _The Private Kate Bush_

    Kate Bush is notoriously wary of press scrutiny. She last spoke to
_Hot Press_ back in 1978 around the time of the release of "Wuthering
Heights", her first single, which subsequently raced all the way to
the No. 1 spot.
    A megastar ever since, she's the kind of artist who gives Press
Officers nervous breakdowns. We've sought another audience on
numerous occasions in the intervening period, but the idea
remained interminably in the pending file, awaiting what La Bush
might deem the most appropriate moment. During the three years since
the release of her superb fourth album, _The Dreaming_, we've kept
in almost constant contact (Jesus, the phone bills!)...
   With the impending launch of the next meisterwerk, _Hounds of
Love_, by the summer of 1985, the logic seemed inescapable. We made
the case as often as possible and (sweet relief) Kate was convinced.
Not that everything is necessarily hunky dory once the interview has been
agreed to in principle: that was August, this is November. No wonder
the press office remain nervous and apprehensive until the writer is
safely dispatched in a taxi to the artist's Elsham rehearsal
hideaway...
   It all seems so out of context when you finally confront Kate Bush
herself. She's warm and wonderfully friendly. And you can see right
away why people have fallen in love with those two huge dimples on
her left cheek: the beauty is in the blemishes. She's admirably
unaffected, too, making a quick cup of tea herself, and downing two
chocolate eclairs without batting an eyelid.
    When the tea is finished, we settle down to chew some tape up.
This is what we find.

   I am sure you are fed up answering this question, but the obvious
thing people want to know first is why there was such a long gap
between your last album and this one.
   "Yeah, it really is the question! I wanted to sort out my
environment. I was living in the city, and I wasn't happy working in
London studios -- so we moved to the country and built and equipped
our own studio, which we then recorded everything in. Also, I was
taking time to go dancing again, to get back into training. Whenever
I make an album I just stop completely, and it's those gaps in between
when I can throw myself back into it. And things like learning to
drive, going to see a few movies -- actually I wanted to go to _see_
people. Just to do those things that you don't get time to do when
you are so busy. And I think it was all really beneficial. It really
was."
   The second side of your new album has been described as a "concept"
piece. Was there any resistance on EMI's part to releasing a record
with that aspect to it?
   "I think if they'd heard demos, if they'd heard about the _idea_
of it being a concept before they actually heard the finished thing,
I might have had that problem, yes. But because they were presented
with the final thing, with all the songs completed and linked
together, and it was _finished_, I think they were accepting it as
music rather than having any preconception of 'concept' -- of
everyone going '_Ooh_, no! That's really Sixties!' It did
frighten me a lot, just that word, 'concept'. _Ooh!_ You could
feel people shuddering just as you said it. But it is what it is,
you can't get away from it."
    Obviously on one level _The Ninth Wave_ is about somebody
nearly drowning. But I was struck by images which suggested that
there could be drugs involved. There's the line in "And Dream of
Sleep": "I can't be left to my imagination/Let me be weak..."
And then there's the mention of poppies.
   "Definitely there is the connection, with the poppies. That
imagery wasn't really meant to be drug-orientated, but when you
think of poppies you automatically get that sense of terrible
drowsiness, and I suppose you do connect it to opium."
   Then in "The Ice Song" {"Under Ice"; -- ed.}, there is the
reference to "making {sic} lines, little lines," which can obviously
be interpreted in those terms. {Obviously? WSI time here, folks!
-- ed.} There's also a connection in snow and pervasive _whiteness_.
   "Yes, absolutely. But really it wasn't conscious when I was
writing it, and it was only a few weeks before we finished the album
that people said, 'God, have you looked at this: "_Cutting little
lines_," and I had really not consciously considered that at all.
I mean, the whole thing is about skaters cutting ice, and leaving
tracks instead of footprints. And it's cold and empty. For me,
the ultimate loneliness is not a complete wasteland, but for it to
be completely frozen. It was _that_ imagery more than a drug-based
one. But you are right..."
   Someone experiencing a habit could metaphorically be said to
be drowning. I definitely think of the second side as a description
of what it might be like to get over a heroin habit. {Isn't it just
AMAZING how people can PERSIST in nurturing their own misconceived
notions, even when they have just been TOLD by the ultimate
authority of their mistake? Incredible! -- ed.}
   "I think it's parallel to so many things, really -- It's
definitely going through an experience and coming out the other side
and it's definitely not a _pleasant_ experience. I definitely find
it very frightening, the whole concept of being in something so huge
and it's night and you're alone (small laugh).
    "I can't really pinpoint it -- perhaps from war films and
people coming off boats, planes, into the water, and they're there
all night, having already been through such terrible experiences.
And there they are, dumped in the middle of nothing. Ooh, so many
things that human beings went through in wartime -- It's just
incredible what people could do, even do to their _own_ people.
Terrible.
    "I like the whole idea, too, of being in water, and sensory
deprivation -- losing a complete sense of where you are, and then
off goes your head: your body is left there, but your mind is
travelling. I think everyone gets these glimpses, moments,
somewhere in your life when you experience something and you
suddenly realise how you're taking it all for granted."
    If you look at it from the point of view of somebody who is
unemployed or finding it hard to make ends meet, writing an
album on that kind of abstract theme could seem like an indulgent
exercise. How would you respond to that particular criticism?
    "I would say, is it right to put this kind of limitation on
art? I think very visually, when I write things, and I particularly
saw this piece as a visual thing. Also, I think perhaps it would be
more hypocritical of me to write about a situation that concerns
those kind of people. I don't think I could understand it enough to
make something worthwhile from it. It's very difficult; I always
remember the criticisms of someone like Elton John -- How can
someone that rich sing about being poor when they don't understand
it? Margaret Thatcher, how can she understand it? When you're dealing
with contemporary situations, you have to be terribly careful not to
insult rather than do what you want to do, which is '_Yeah!
Come on, let's do it!_' {gestures}."
    So tell me, how would you vote in an election, if there was
one in the next week or two?
    "That's something I wouldn't want to say. I think it's a very
personal thing, voting. I also think it's a crazy situation we are
in, where there is not much choice. You look at the people who are
up there, who we have to choose between -- Is that really a solution?
I don't think it is at all, is it?"
    So what's your opinion of Margaret Thatcher, then?
    "I don't feel I am a political thinker at all. I don't really
understand politics."
    On the other hand, you must have opinions about her.
    "About _her_. I don't know, I don't know what I think of her,
or any of them. I think it's incredible, really, don't you, the people
we have to choose between?"
    I think that there is a shocking limitation in what they aspire to.
    "Also, there's the big fib that everyone has, that they _do_
aspire to these things -- but it's just a promotional thing, to
get them to number one! And even if someone in that position _wanted_
to help, could they? Could they? Because they are so tied in by the
whole bureaucracy of the thing, it's like a big game that's much
deeper than it looks, really."
    But Margaret Thatcher -- She has basically attempted to dismantle
the Social Welfare system.
    "That's horrific, that's really terrible, the hospitals...
But I don't know if there is anyone besides her at the moment who
would really do it better, would they? I don't know, I wish there
was, it would be good. It would be great to stop National Health
going down the drain -- It's disgusting to think of people having
to die because they don't have the facilities to care for some
people. But the unemployment thing is -- I don't know. I don't like
what governments do, but I can't talk about individuals because I don't
know enough about them. I really don't. I'm ignorant."
    As somebody who is involved in making records, you are also
involved in creating a product and to an extent, Kate Bush becomes
a commodity. How do you feel about that?
    "Yes, that is something that does scare me. If you want to make
records, videos, you have got to have money, and to get that money you
have to have albums that are relatively successful. You have to promote
them. And that's where I feel the commodity side comes in, because as
soon as the personality seeps into it rather than the work, you're
making that person vulnerable to the public. I don't like that. I'd
much rather work on albums, videos, and explore films and that,
without having to promote them. I find it difficult, I feel false.
It's very against what I feel is right.
    "I think sometimes the work speaks much better than the person
does. I certainly feel mine does. Because I can spend a lot of time
trying to say something, and I don't feel that I am good enough at
what I am doing _now_ to really warrant doing it, other than for
selling my work. And I think sometimes it can go against the work:
the personality can almost taint it."
    Can you give an example of that?
    "Preconceptions can cause problems, and I think, say some of
the press I got a while ago was very _flippant_. And I felt that
that, to a certain extent, did work against what I was trying to
do. It created an impression of me that wasn't really what I was,
and perhaps gave that impression to people who could have seen me
in a different way."
    You can't escape the fact that this is the century of mass
communication, and the whole way in which the media work is
through creating resonances off one another. To me, it's part of
the excitement.
    "I suppose if we start talking about someone else, I can
automatically relate to what you are saying. I am curious about
what made Sting write 'Message in a Bottle'. But at the same time I
can see things that have happened to other people, where it would
have been better if that area of their personality hadn't been aired."
    The initial poster promoting your first album was a close-up
shot of you in a leotard. That caused quite a bit of controversy
at the time. What's your view, retrospectively, of that?
    "I didn't really see it objectively at that time, and I think
now, when I see it, it's quite embarassing -- but I suppose that's
because I'm a long way away from it. I don't think it had too many
sexual connotations -- I thought it was rather nice at the time."
    But why do you find it embarassing now? Is it the fact that you
can see your breasts through the vest?
    "Yes, it should have been cropped, and I think that's something
that we would certainly do now. It's not necessary, it's just
something that I didn't see then. Looking at it retrospectively,
I can see that it was suggestive."
    At the same time, there is a projection of sexuality through
the photos on the latest album.
    "Do you think so, on this album cover?"
    Yeah, I suppose it begins with the fact that you're in a
sleeping position...
    "Yes, you are right. That was very difficult. Because the album
is called _Hounds of Love_, and it was very difficult trying to get
a picture of myself with dogs that wouldn't look either like something
out of _Country Life_ or too period -- it was _impossible_. The
original idea was just to have the three heads -- myself and a dog
each side of me, but it just didn't work. The dogs wouldn't stay
still! It was ridiculous, and the only way we could do it was to lie
down with them and just get them to relax enough so that they would
sort of ZZZzzz! And that was the way it worked. But I suppose you're
right, though it wasn't initially or consciously thought of as a
sexual thing at all. In fact it's something -- I have become I think
a bit -- It worries me anytime I think there is any kind of sexual
connotation: 'My God! Should I be careful?...'"
    But why does that worry you so much?
    "I don't know. It confuses me. It's really annoying, too, because
I don't see what's wrong with having sexuality, with recognising
the sexual quality of things. But I suppose it confuses me because
when I am doing things at the time, maybe people will say "That's
sexy," and I can't relate to it. I can't see myself sexually --
I just see me being silly. I can't be objective about myself."
    In a funny way, there's quite a strange kind of sexuality that
comes across through all your photography. For example, the second
album, where you are in the lion's costume.
    "Yes, it didn't occur to me agian -- it really didn't --  until
people started saying "Oooh!" And I couldn't see it."
    I suppose it's -- On an entirely crude level with _Hounds of Love_,
the implication is of consorting with animals...
    "Yes, I see, _Hounds of Love_, difinitely. It's fascinating, I
think, the idea of humans becoming animals. Like the guy in "An
American Werewolf in London" -- It's really the first time it's been
done well, isn't it, the idea of a man actually transferring into an
animal. It's got a wonderful, very primeval, magical sense about it.
And I suppose that dividing line -- We are animals but we are
different, we are much more intelligent -- There is a separation
but there isn't. It can be really disturbing, I think, really scary.
Interesting."
    When you see an image, you automatically read meanings into it.
There are certain connotations that are unavoidable, and implicit.
The latest sleeve: I would have thought lying with two dogs asleep,
entitled _The Hounds of Love_ {sic}, connecting the two you have
created quite a definitive...
    "Yes. I think _Hounds of Love_ is very obvious -- quite a lot
of people have suggested that. But when you think of it in terms
of the song it's completely different. It's the sense of the 'hound'
of love: the hound symbolically representing that force. You're
terrified of it so you run, but it keeps coming after you, and
you're terrified that when it catches you, it's going to hurt you."
    But if you interpret that on a subconscious level, what does it
mean?
    "On a subconscious level! What are we getting into, Freud?"
    Well, why not?
    "I haven't gone that far. It was an image, the idea of being
scared. Instead of this force of man, it was a pack of hounds."
    But what are people afraid of? People are afraid of sex.
People are fascinated by it, but it does also have the quality of
inspiring fear. And particularly if it's with somebody or something
which isn't an accepted part of everyday situations. So it's
to do with temptation, and once you commit the sin, everything is
actually fine -- because that's what people experience in relation
to sexuality. {Huh? -- ed.}
    "I suppose you're right. I suppose the fear of relationships
is what it's about, but obviously it's dealing with a man and
woman, and that does have to do with sexual energy."
    There are other areas where you have specifically taken a
taboo as a theme -- for example, "The Infant Kiss."
    "Yes, that was fascinating. It was based on the film, 'The
Innocents'. I saw it years ago, when I was very young, and it scared
me, and when films scare you as a kid, I think they really _hang_
there. It's a beautiful film, quite extraordinary. This governess
is supposed to look after these children, a little boy and a girl,
and they are actually possessed by the spirits of the people who
were in the house before. And they keep appearing to the children.
It's _really scary_ -- as scary on some levels as the idea of
"The Exorcist", and _that_ terrified me. The idea of this young girl,
speaking and behaving like she did was very disturbing, very
distorted. But I quite like that song."
    But there are those who would say it was totally perverse.
    "I suppose they would. And actually, I don't think I could find
a younger man attractive, let alone a boy. But the whole idea of
looking at a little innocent boy and that distortion -- I mean,
it's absolutely terrifying, isn't it? I thought it was ingenious,
great, so weird and unnatural."
    But the thing is, looking at it objectively, that's a song about
paedophilia. The strange thing is that, written by a woman, that
seems acceptable.
    "It's very different from a woman's point of view, and I think
that's also what's so interesting about it."
    But did it occur to you that if that song had been written and
sung by a man, there might have been a really huge outcry?
    "That's something I never thought about, but I suppose you're
right. But a man _didn't_ write it. I don't know, it's a bit hard
to understand, but it was the fascination of a very soft, gentle
woman who wouldn't consider herself perverse at all -- in fact,
she _wasn't_, that's the thing. She thought that she was being a
paediathingy  -- but in fact she wasn't, she was truly picking up a real
man's energy and not a kid's, because the child was possessed. It's
very different if it involves a man and a little girl -- the man is
so powerful to start with."
    I was thinking of it on a political level {what a fucking pain
in the butt! -- ed.}. Say how would feminists react, if _I_ wrote that
song?...
    "Yes, if you wrote that song, automatically it would have some weird
and dangerous connotations. Because you don't normally think -- and this
is very heavy, this -- When there are attractions to children from
adults, you normally do think of it as men to girls. It's just more
spoken of. And I think you're into very negative, dangerous areas that
would make it something very unpleasant..."
    Do you consider yourself a feminist?
    "I really react to that word, and I think probably the majority
of women -- but I don't know -- would feel the same. Feminist is one
of those words. When you hear 'feminist' you go 'ummgh!' It's like
'concept'. You get all these terrible images -- like women with hairy
legs and big muscles. And I mean you just think of butch lesbians.
I think the media's been playing around with it, but I also think there
are an awful lot of groups that basically don't like men, and they
tend to get quite a lot of publicity. And they are terribly aggressive
and quite illogical: 'What have we got men for!' I think a lot of
women feel very confused by the whole thing -- I know I do -- where
you've just got to get in there -- that's the thing -- and _work_!
    "There are a lot of women who  -- obviously -- want the same
opportunities, who don't want doors shut in their faces. But you
know we should help each other, for God's sake, we shouldn't be
fighting against each other. We should be working to help each other.
And men have to be educated as much as women do. We have both been
really conditioned. Okay, we are different, we have to recognise that,
but we should be able to work together and help each other, and I think
we can. We are all sort of sitting here feeling confused, both the
women and the men! Or alternatively, the men are out there being
chauvinist pigs and the women are out there being feminists. But
there's a lot in the middle, a hodge-podge of people, just trying to
adjust."
    You have actually charted a very independent course yourself, and
in some ways you'd offer a definition of what feminists would want
women to be able to do.
   "I would like to think that there is actually a very strong
force of women who believe we should have equal opportunities, be
able to work, be treated nicely without any threat, all of that.
And not necessarily come on with 'We hate men -- Off with your balls!'
Do you know what I mean? And I think there are lots of women who are
starting to really do it properly. Look at comedy. I think comedy in
this country is incredible. The best. It really is, it's superb. I
suppose a lot of it is negatively based, but it still is superb, and
just streets ahead of anyone else in the world. _But_, I think women
have been used so much in comedy. Either there's something really
hideous and ugly that's meant to be attractive, and then when it's
hideous and ugly everyone goes 'aah!", or there's Benny Hill's cutie
pies that don't speak. But now there's a revolution in comedy which
involves women in a much more interesting way. They're not being used
as women, they're not really pretty or really ugly, they're just
people. I think that really says a lot. And it's nice to see that,
because so often I think women are _pandered_ to. Like: a couple
of years ago there was a trend of these feminist programmes that
were meant to be for women, and they were all basically anti-men
jokes. And all the women I knew thought they were horrific. It was
totally insulting and unfunny. Yet women were presumed to laugh at this.
Women came on and told jokes just as sexist as the men's. But it seems
to have changed. It's women -- Victoria Wood, Jennifer Saunders,
Tracey Ullman -- it's women, real women."
    You successfully declined to discuss your relationship with
Del {Del Palmer, Kate's demo engineer and bass player, and a great
guy -- ed.} publicly for seven years. Why was that?
    "Well, I don't feel our relationship is anything to do with anyone
other than us."
    But on the other hand, it was made public knowledge through the
_Daily Mirror_.
    "Yes. There was a launch of the album, and it was really a decision,
whether we didn't go together or whether we'd go together and just
behave normally. And we thought it was silly not to go together --
so we went together. And everyone wanted photographs of the two of us.
It was quite a shock for both of us -- It's been a long time since
there's been that many cameras going off for me. And I don't think
Del had experienced anything quite like that before. So it's not
that it all suddenly came out in the open. There was a launch and he
was there. But they loved it!"
    Does it create any tension that you are the one who is the
bigger earner? Obviously you have the greater income. It's a reversal
of the conventional pattern.
    "It's not really that unusual now. Del's very involved in the work.
He seems to really enjoy the music, so we actually work together. I
don't think he minds."
    Is there a very conscious root in English culture in your writing?
For example, the Tennyson quote you used to introduce _The Ninth Wave_.
And then there was "Oh England My Lionheart" on the second album.
    "My patriotic number! Yes, I think there probably _was_ moreso
than there is now. The Tennyson thing is a bit misleading because
rather than that inspiring the b-side, I needed a title for all the
pieces and there wasn't any line in the songs that really was right.
It needed a title that said something, so I was looking through some
books, and I found this quote from Tennyson that I though was perfect,
so that was it."
    Is most of your reading concentrated on nineteenth-century
literature?
    "I read very little. I'm really terribly ignorant, just like my
politics. As a child, I used to read lots and lots, but I just feel
guilty now when I pick up books. I think I should be doing something
else. It's really an incredible experience -- it's so intimate, just
you and the book. And you create so much of it. That's what's so nice
about it. You are involved with the effort. And I suppose that's why
I don't do it much!"
    I suppose I got that impression starting off with "Wuthering
Heights".
    "Right, well it always affects me. Every book I've read has really
affected me. It's that special, you do create a relationship, really.
And that was such a huge story...Oscar Wilde was one of my earliest
influences -- his fairy stories. I could still read one of them --
definitely -- and cry. Terribly tragic stuff."
    So what about the Irish flavour in your music?
    "I feel that strongly, being torn between the Irish and the English
blood in me, really. And the Irish influence is definitely very strong.
My mother was always playing Irish music, and again, I think when you
are really young, things get in and get in deeper because you haven't
got as many walls up. I just -- it's the same as my mother -- I watch
her, and when the pipes start playing, 'Yahoo!', you know, everything
just lights up and it can be so inspiring. It's just emotional stuff.
I think I was really lucky to be given that kind of stimulus. It's
really _heavy_, emotionally -- the pipes, they really tear it out of
your heart."
    But do you listen to Irish traditional music at the moment?
    "Yeah, I do. It's great. I love it."
    What's your reaction to Ireland?
    "It's beautiful, totally beautiful. There are so many different
kinds of landscapes and beauty. It's so wonderful just hanging around
the coast and watching it change. It's always dramatic, stepping back
into the last century. It has a real sense of magic. And the people are
so fantastic, so warm, so wistful. I really do like Ireland a lot. It's
one of the few places apart from England where I'd ever think of living."
    Were you ever north of the border?
    "No, never."
    Would you like to go?
    "Yes, I would."
    You've no reservations about it?
    "I think everybody that's English has hesitations. You can't help
but be conditioned. It happens everywhere, and I would very much like
to go over, and certainly without having experienced -- to understand
the reality of it and not the illusion that's created by people."
    Was your mother republican in her attitudes? {Ubboy! -- ed.}
    "I don't think that's something I want to talk about. You
should ask my mother that."
    I just wondered what kind of an impression of the relationship
between the North and the South, the English and the Irish you'd been
given. {Jeez what an ass-wipe! -- ed.}
    "Totally by media, and by the IRA -- that's what the English
person thinks of as soon as you mention Northern Ireland. Definitely,
people being bombed and shot, and a very military kind of scene with
lots of repression and perhaps the English not being too welcome there.
This is the impression that we have."
    As a child, were you aware of the border? Were you aware of the
tensions that existed between the English and the Irish historically?
    "My mother's picture of Ireland was of her home, and no further
than that -- literally. And that is where her heart is. And all her
memories and the things she says of home are just beautiful. I think
it has definitely affected my attitude toward Ireland. That's why I
feel so at home, why I love it so much. I can feel my mother everywhere
there."
    Would your parents at this stage completely accept this lifestyle,
or do you think they ever wish that 'their Kate' had turned out
differently?
    "I don't know if they wish I had turned out differently. They've
never said anything, and I've never asked them. But they are great,
and I think they are very happy. They get a lot of pleasure in being
involved in it. I think they genuinely enjoy it."
    Your family seems to be a very close-knit one. Your brothers are
very involved in your career.
    "They are, though they're not really involved consistently. But
they are important, my family. They've always _been_ there, been
supportive."
    Given the importance of your family and the closeness that's there,
what about the idea of having children yourself?
    "That's not something that I can talk about -- it's not a desire
that I have had yet. My work is totally obsessive. I can't say. I
might do."

END OF INTERVIEW