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"IED just sent off a letter of sulking complaint to the Kate Bush Club, telling them to cut this nonsense out and just tell us the fucking answer."
Back to The Ninth Wave Songs page
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 85 23:01:11 edt
From: Doug Alan <nessus>
Subject: Strange messages, Backward vocals
You know what's *really* neat?!?! (Old time net.music readers will already know this...) On "The Dreaming" there is a two-way message that is sung at the end of "Leave It Open". When you play it forwards it sings "We let the weirdness in". And when you play it backwards it sings "And they said they would not let me in"! Not only does it say something both forwards and backwards, but the backwards meaning is the negation of the forward meaning! I wish I knew how John Barrett and Kate did this!
Now on "Hounds of Love", it sounds to me that there are all sorts of backwards vocals. (Kate once said that her favorite song is John Lennon's "Number Nine Dream" and that she loves all the backward vocals in it.) There are backward vocals in "Watching You Without Me" and in "Waking The Witch". Unfortunately, these backward vocals still sound backward to me when I play them backward! Does anyone else have any idea what they are saying? Or is Kate just pulling a practical joke on us? On "The Dreaming", she put in singing that sounds forwards no matter which way you play it. And on "Hounds of Love" she put in singing that sounds backwards no matter which way you play it?
There is another two way message on HOL, though. In "Watching You Without Me", right after the part that sounds backwards, there is singing that sounds like "really see" repeated several times. But when you play this backwards, it *still* sounds like "really see"!
"WOW, WOW, WOW, WOW, WOW, WOW, Unbelieveable"
Doug
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 85 02:11:33 edt
From: harvard!topaz!jerpc.PE.UUCP
Subject: backwards vocals
The following is the reply to a whole day's digest which Doug sent me because of some problems with Harvard's mailer... please forgive the lengthiness of it.
> The vocals on "Watching You Without Me" sounded to me like they might be forward vocals sung in some foreign language and processed a little to sound backward. That would explain why they still sound backward when played backwards. ...
> There are some forward vocals on "Watching You Without Me" and/or "Waking The Witch" that sound like they are combined with a square-wave or something, and they are somewhat intelligible, so she has definitely processed forward vocals to make them sound weird elsewhere on the album.
I think both of these effects are produced just by amplitude-modulating the vocals. On an analog synthesizer like mine, you would do this by running the vocals through a voltage-controlled amplifier and applying an appropriate signal to the control voltage input: a square wave to produce the chopped vocals, and an envelope generator (triggered on the original vocal envelope) set to produce a slow attack and abrupt release to make the "backwards vocals" effect. People usually recognize backwards vocals because they have a slow attack (amplitude wise) with an abrupt decay, which is backwards from normal. The same is true of string instruments, which is how Steve Howe produces all the strange guitar effects (e.g., the organ-like chords accompanying the words "Will continue") in the song "Sound Chaser". It sounds likely she would do this sort of thing, since she apparently also runs some of her vocals on "The Dreaming" through a guitar sound processing device (a "Flanger" or "Phlanger", or something like that. However, I don't know how those work.).
Of course, with these modern, digital synthesizers like the Fairlight, it's probably called the "Page 198, Option 57" or something, instead... I've always felt a little disappointed to encounter all these people who only know how to work the options on digital synthesizers...
I always thought the square-wave sounds were supposed to be an obscure reference to drugs, like on the Firesign Theatre albums... (at least that's what someone told me once).
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 85 10:23:20 edt
From: Doug Alan <nessus>
Subject: backwards vocals
> From: Jeff Richardson
>> [Me:] And when you play it backwards it sings "And they said they would not let me in"!
> I've tried this several times, and I can't hear the word "not".
I made a typo. It sounds like "And they said they wouldn't let me in".
> This makes me think that they've recorded the two messages separately in normal, forward voices, then reversed one of them, then combined the two signals together.
I think so too. But it *definitely* wasn't done by adding the two signals together. It's *way* too good for that. My guess is that they did some sort of weird interpolation using Fourier transforms and stuff like that that I don't understand. I bet the Fairlight allows you to interpolate signals like that so that you can mix two sounds together and get a new sound that sounds like a cross between the two rather than the sum of the two.
I even wrote a letter to Kate several months back asking if that's how she did it, but I never got an answer. Oh well.
> The vocals on "Watching You Without Me" sounded to me like they might be forward vocals sung in some foreign language and processed a little to sound backward. That would explain why they still sound backward when played backwards. Does anybody else think they might be in a foreign language?
I've played this backwards some more and I think I've deciphered some of it. Part of it sounds like "He was long... he was long... he was longing... <mumble><mumble><mumble>". This makes perfect sense with respect to the subject matter of the song.
>> [Me:] There is another two way message on HOL, though. In "Watching You Without Me", right after the part that sounds backwards, there is singing that sounds like "really see" repeated several times. But when you play this backwards, it *still* sounds like "really see"!
> I think that's one of the ones that sounds to me like it's combined with a > square-wave. If it's the one I'm thinking of, it sounds like "listen to me" > and "talk to me", but I'll have to check it out tonight.
No, it's shortly before that. The chopped up speech is something different. There's chopped up speech in both "Watching" and "Waking". In "Watching" it sounds something like "Help me baby, help me. Don't do this to me, baby. Listen to me. Talk to me. Wake up, baby, wake up." In "Waking" it sounds something like "Wake up, wake up baby. Bless me father, bless me father, for I have sinned. UH! Listen to me. Listen to me. Help me, baby. UH! Talk to me."
Doug
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 85 08:55:59 edt
From: Doug Alan <nessus>
Subject: SOS
> From: Mark Mallett
> Another thing that I didn't notice is that in the song "Watching you Without Me" (which while I listen to it is my favorite, like many of the others) at about 2:06 into the song there is a morse code sequence in the background which spells out "SOS" three times.
You are right. Thanks for pointing this out! If anyone else notices things like this, please post them!
Everyone I talk to thinks that "Watching You" is one of the best songs on the album. I dunno why, because it's my least favorite, but that's still pretty damned good.
> I really don't think that it was recorded very well. It may be that I have a bad copy. The level is extremely high-- and it seems to come out sounding flat as a result. About 26 seconds into the last song there is a very bad sounding stretch. Again, maybe it is just my copy.
I haven't noticed any of this. I don't think the recording is *great*, but it's not bad. I don't think the dynamic range could be any more --there's already some stuff going on that's so soft I can't hear it unless I turn it up so that everything else is painfully loud.
I can understand hiss. It turns out that KB's studio is only 24 tracks, so she must have to do a lot of bouncing, and it's not digital either.
Unfortunately, with this album, and with "The Dreaming", my speakers can't deal with the amount of high frequency energy, my headphones can't deal with the amount of low frequency energy, and my car speakers can't deal with either. These have no problems with most other music I listen to....
-Doug
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 85 01:13:24 edt
From: harvard!jerpc.PE!topaz!jer (Eric Roskos @ Home)
Subject: lyrics
In "Watching you Without Me", right after the lines that sound backwards/oriental, doesn't she sing "It's here" several times in French? I am not sure... I don't remember French very well, but I thought "ici" meant "here". (Or maybe "I'm not here". I'm not sure.)
Can't you see your little light's
A lie?
-- jer
Maybe not...
In the song, does she have a light, or is it just that her face "is all lit up"?
Date: Tue, 06 May 86 15:16 PDT
From: IED0DXM%UCLAMVS.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU
Subject: New KBC competition
As usual, all verbiage from this correspondent concerns KT and KT only.
The latest KBC Newsletter has apparently made it official: there is now a competition underway to decipher "what Kate is saying" in "Watching You Without Me", although the announcement does a bad job of pinpointing the position of this message within the track. The message still makes no more sense backwards than it does forwards, although it is clear that something is being said. There are two distinct sections, the second being a repeated phrase saying something like "Really see" (this is Doug Alan's hearing, not mine: could the words not be "We receive," or even "We recede"?).
I will shortly submit to Love-Hounds a transcription of the first section as heard by me, but without any confidence of its accuracy. What interest me even more, however, are the two or three seconds immediately preceding this "backwards" track, during which time the Morse code signal for "S-O-S" can be clearly heard. I have no trouble with that message; however, if those moments are listened to again, another sound, like that of a high-pitched, wavering short-wave radio transmission, also becomes audible. Could this not be another message in Morse code, put on a loop and then sped up to nearly inaudible Hz levels? Who can clarify for me?
Date: Tue, 06 May 86 20:53 PDT
From: IED0DXM%UCLAMVS.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU
Subject: backwards message
The precise location of the "backwards" track in "Watching You Without Me" is at bar 64, ending at bar 78 (12 bars); this translates as from 2:19 into the track to 2:48 (30 seconds). I think Paddy's entertaining demonstration of how a backwards track is done was too simplistic. There is more going on here than simply learning the way a phrase sounds when played backwards and then singing those sounds, recording the vocal normally.
First, there is Kate's tendency to distort the sounds as she records them, through God knows how many bizarre devices (the harmonizer being only one of many, I am sure).
Second, there are the odd echoes of rhythm that can be heard behind the vocal when the record is played normally, which sound very much like truly "backwards" tracks. This would not be the case if all the sounds had been "learned" and then recorded normally. A similar "backwardsiness" can be detected in the "weirdness" passage from "Leave It Open".
This brings up the third and I think most important reason for distrusting Paddy's simple explanation, namely, that words do indeed seem to come out of the "weirdness" passage when it is played backwards. After all, Kate seemed to be playing a joke on fans when it turned out the "weirdness" message was a forwards message after all. Isn't it likely that she's playing a joke now, as well? The problem is, we're ready for her, and she knows it; therefore, I'm convinced, the new puzzle is somehow more complicated than the first one.
Heard forwards, these are the phonetics I'm hearing (these are *very* tentative): "Zwoh neekh lawv zwoh neekh lawveet" (rest) "eeb vee nahd widthawng ee noy" (repeat)
N.B.: The music book wrongly begins this passage at bar 65, one of dozens of such errors to be found within the "official" transcription.
This passage is then succeeded by what I believe is a separate message, the one which consists of the repeated message "Really see," or "We receive," or "We recede".
Can anyone make sense of any of this?
-- Andrew Marvick
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 86 20:41 PDT
From: IED0DXM%UCLAMVS.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU
Subject: details
Doug thought L-Hs might appreciate the following bit about The Ninth Wave, taken from a letter from IED to Break-Through. It's an interpretation of one of the teensy-weensy details in the recording. What similar contributions can the L-Hs make in response?
Frank brings up another extremely interesting point about the barely audible details in "Watching You Without Me", on which I think I can shed some light. At the very beginning, two male voices can be heard speaking. After many fruitless listenings, it suddenly hit me what was going on. If you count along with the beat from the very first down-beat of the recording, voicing only the first beat of each bar (that is, voicing ONE {two-three-four} TWO {two-three-four}, etc.) up to eight -- the length of the rhythmic introduction of the song --you will then have the solution. Almost immediately you'll hear one musician ask "What's that?" He means, "What bar is that?" Then, at bar four, that same musician calls out "four" -- but he calls it out on the third, rather than the first beat of that bar. Another musician then confirms the beat, on the FIRST beat of bar five. Following this, you can hear them counting out the first beats of bars six, seven and eight in unison. This was probably recorded quite early on in the rehearsals, and probably at the original "demo" stage of recording. However, knowing Kate's perfectionism, and the classic character of this exchange, it's just possible that it was actually a staged re-recording of an incident similar to many that must have occurred during the original demo stages of the recording.
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 86 16:07 PDT
From: IED0DXM%UCLAMVS.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU
Subject: details again
"Watching You Without Me"
a. Fairlight (or sung?) note underlines the "you" in "saying to you" after first chorus
b. With first "But I'm not here": a bowed double bass (? cello?) along with pizzicato string sound cf. bowed cello line underlining "his little heart beats so fast" in "Hounds of Love"
c. "Zwoh neekh lawn, zwoh neekh lawneet (rest) eeb vee-ee nahn widthawngee noy" HASN'T ANYBODY GOT AN IDEA ABOUT THIS LINE YET?
d. Re the backwards track: is this backwards, or is it a "double envelope with a phonetic shift"?
e. Backwards, it sounds like "ee knocking us, knocking us...": in other words, it makes no more sense backwards than forwards N.B.: More on this in future L-Hs
f. "We receive"? "We recede"? "Really see"? Surf sounds accompany the above line
g. "Talk to me baby help me baby talk to me IT'S TOO LATE (or IT'S TRUE, BABY) listen to me LISTEN TO ME talk to me talk (? or help?) IF EH EH IT'S ____"??
h. S.O.S.: returns three measures before backwards track begins; Second radio noise heard here -- identify, translate, if possible
i. Directly after (or before?) the second scatter-voice, a low voice says something (unidentified), after which the Fairlight or vocal accent recurs, as follows:
j. "Listen to me listen to me baby help me help me baby talk to me talk to me talk to me baby talk to me" "SOMETHING SAID HERE" with accompanying accent note; also heard after second (of second verse's) "You can't hear me"s
k. HERE IS ANOTHER BIG MYSTERY: In second verse, with (or after) second "But I'm not here", a voice sings unidentified words -- heard again (?) as the penultimate utterance of the recording
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 86 16:43 PDT
From: IED0DXM%UCLAMVS.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU
Subject: KBC newsletter
A new KBC Newsletter was received by IED today, and he forthwith relays news of the utmost importance to the world at large.
...
Next in importance is Kate's new clue for the solution to the "backwards" track in "Watching You Without Me". The passage has been more precisely located in the new Newsletter, and it is significant, perhaps, that nowhere is the term "backwards" used. Three new clues have been given which should make the solution a simple matter: first, the message begins with the word "Don't"; second, the message is twelve words in length; and third, the message is "repeated" three times (by which IED assumes it is meant that the message is uttered three times in all, i.e. "repeated" twice).
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 86 12:36 PDT
From: IED0DXM%UCLAMVS.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU
Subject: backwards message
[Watching you without me:]
Although this listener has not yet made any sense of it, he has become confident that the message IS backwards, and is to be understood only when listened to backwards. As Dawn Uebel pointed out in Break-Through number 10, we were all completely wrong about the passage which directly follows the one in question: the words are not "We receive", nor "We recede", nor even "Really see". In fact, when heard backwards, the words "We see you here" stand out as clear as a bell. Unfortunately, in the longer, preceding message, although Kate does seem to be saying something backwards, it still makes no sense to IED. For one thing, she seems to be repeating the nonsensical words "he knocking us", among other things, and the word "don't" is nowhere audible to this listener.
Doug, where are you when you're needed?
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 87 14:52 PST
From: IED0DXM%UCLAMVS.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu
Subject: KBC news
Other KT News:
According to the latest issue of the Kate Bush Club Newsletter, at least one fan has successfully deciphered the first six words of the twelve-word message in the "backwards" track from "Watching You Without Me". As he is certain that the perceptive party in question is not himself, IED looks to the world Love-Hounds community for further clues. Please make some effort to figure out the solution, folks. The passage in question starts at 2:19 into the track (using a CD), and lasts about thirty seconds. It begins right after the Morse code passage, and is identifiable as a message sung in octaves, with tambourine and an occasional "Yip!" in the background. The first word of the twelve-word message is "Don't". This is still not nearly enough to make the solution easy, so please help out -- let's have an argument about something truly important in Love-Hounds, for a change!
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 87 17:39 PST
From: IED0DXM%UCLAMVS.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu
Subject: Backwards vocals
[Backwards vocals:]
Yes, it has been discussed in L-Hs before, but since no-one has come up with the solution to the latest problem yet, an excessively boring and long-winded re-capitulation doesn't seem out of order, especially since most people just scroll past IED's longer entries anyway!
There have only been two so-called "backwards tracks" in Kate's music to date, as far as anyone knows so far.
The first appears in The Dreaming, specifically in the last minute of "Leave It Open". [see there]
Well, once all this had been discovered, some fans suspected that Kate had been having a little joke at our expense. So, when the Hounds of Love album came out, they really didn't know what to expect. Sure enough, there was a new mystery passage in The Ninth Wave, specifically starting at about 2:19 into the track called "Watching You Without Me".
There are actually two parts to this track, and that's part of the puzzle. First there is a message which, when played normally on a record player, sounds sort of like: "Zwoh-nikh-lawn, zwoh-nikh-lawn-eet; ett nee-eed nawng width-aw-nee noy." This two-bar passage is sung, in all, three times. Then there follows a second weird phonetic passage, which a lot of fans thought sounded like "We receive, we receive;" or "We recede"; or "Really see." Whereas the first passage is sung in octaves, with a distinctive tambourine rhythm track and someone (or the Fairlight) going "Yup!" periodically in the background, this follow-up passage was sparser, and turned out to be easier to solve. Apparently, when played backwards, this second passage seems to consist of Kate singing "We see you here, we see you here," or something very similar. And that makes perfect sense in the context of the song's story.
It wasn't surprising, therefore to find that this passage was not included by the Club Newsletter in the "mystery" passage for the new competition. So concentration has been put on the "Zwoh-neekh-lawn..." section; and so far, one fan has come up with the first six words. Only no-one knows which fan is right (presumably not even the fan knows for sure), and no-one knows what those six words are yet. The only clues we've been given are: that the message is a sentence of twelve words, sung three times; and that the first word of the message is "Don't".
IED, for one, has gotten absolutely nowhere with it, and is certain that he will feel like an even bigger fool when he is told the answer than he did when the answer to the "Leave It Open" message was revealed. But at least he will be able to console himself with the knowledge that, loyal Lionheart that he is, he gave it a good try.
-- Andrew Marvick
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 87 16:13 PST
From: IED0DXM%UCLAMVS.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu
Subject: Backwards tracks
Hi, Joe.
It's great to hear from someone who's actually listening, for a change! About the "Watching You Without Me" backwards track: the only way I've ever been able to listen to it was by making a tape of the record being played backwards by hand on a turntable -- terribly unstable pitch-wise.
Date: 23 MAR 87 12:03-PST
From: EOLSON@HMCVAX
Subject: Backwards messages
Having just acquired an inexpensive quad cassette deck this week, I immediately put on my copy of HoL backwards to see if I could discover any clue to what IED is trying to figure out in the backwards track on "Watching you without Me". One thing I found is that the backing tracks "You can't hear me, etc." are acually saying "You can't hear me" backwards in those sections near the end of the song where you can't understand what they say (in the section with the "choppy" vocals ("Help me baby..."?)).
Only thing I could figure out about the "mystery" track is the first few words sound (to me) like "Don't need no symphony being there" (phonetically speaking), and the last 4 words really DO sound like "knocking us, knocking us".
Oh well. So much for my first posting here.
Erik Olson
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 87 18:56 PST
From: IED0DXM%UCLAMVS.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu
Subject: Backwards messages
> From: EOLSON@HMCVAX (Erik Olson)
> Only thing I could figure out about the "mystery" track is the first few words sound (to me) like "Don't need no symphony being there" (phonetically speaking), and the last 4 words really DO sound like "knocking us, knocking us".
This is extremely fascinating, Erik. Thanks for the input. IED must take home your suggestions forthwith and test his ears against them. He is frankly amazed and delighted that you hear a "Don't" at all, since it has persisted in eluding him ever since it was first mentioned in the Newsletter.
Not clear what the other passage you refer to is (presumably not the part right after the "mystery" track where the line "We see you here" is sung backwards several times.) This, too, will be investigated.
-- Andrew Marvick
Date: 26 MAR 87 12:22-PST
From: EOLSON@HMCVAX
Subject: "You can't hear me" msg
The sequence I was referring to is at the end of "WYWM" and goes like this...
You didn't hear me come in -
bb-Help-bb-me-bb-baby-listen-b-to-b-me-b-baby-b-listen-b-to-b-me-talk-b-to-b
me-b-oh-b-listen (?)
em reah nac ouy ("You can't hear me" backwards)
l - stn - o - e - aby - elp - e - aby - tal - to - (etc.)
em reah nac ouy ("You can't hear me" backwards)
You won't hear me leaving.
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 87 12:47 PST
From: IED0DXM%UCLAMVS.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu
Subject: backwards message
Thanks, Erik. IED had been wondering about that line at the end (it's said twice) for the past eighteen months, but (JEEZ WHAT A MORON) he never thought of listening to it backwards! The actual line is recorded forwards, isn't it? That is, it sounds as though Kate learned the backwards phonetics and recorded them normally, because it doesn't have that weird suction-like sound to it...
IED just sent off a letter of sulking complaint to the Kate Bush Club, telling them to cut this nonsense out and just tell us the fucking answer. It's getting to be ridiculous. He went through the last three Newsletters with a f.-t. c., looking for clues to the solution (for the "Leave It Open" mystery track, the relevant Newsletters were peppered with the word "weird"), but could discover nothing at all. One person has got the first six (of the twelve) words, and a couple of others have figured out "the fourth, fifth and sixth".
After prolonged listening, IED has had to reject the suggestion: "Don't need no symphony to be there", or any variant thereof. It's possible to see where you hear that, but the consonants are completely different, and the "to be" isn't there at all.
It could just be more complicated than anyone has guessed so far: there is definitely a BACKWARDS rhythm track going on at the same time as the regular one. It's very soft, but it's there. Now, why is it there?
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 87 14:45:27 PST
From: prs@oliven.ATC.OLIVETTI.COM (Philip Stephens)
Subject: Re: "You can't hear me" msg
OK, after much listening to my backward cassette last night (my ears still hurt, from turning up the volume on my earphones in a vain attempt to get better signal to noise ratio), I hear the following for the whole track:
(note that <> brackets are where I'm *particularly* uncertain of my interpretation, even more than the usual level of error. So don't take any of this as my insisting that these are accurate...)
===========
Backward...
===========
{end}
...hear me leaving ...You can't hear me
{chopped:}
talk to me, listen to me, listen to me, talk to me,
talk to me, baby <I don't want you to leave, but you don't listen
to me>
{"cymbal crash"}
...You can't hear me
{chopped:}
I was <here> before, you talked to me,
<you said that you didn't think it was too late to > help me
<you could> help me
{fwd stuff, incl seagulls}
{I really think this is fwd, not bkwd:}
(w/r/l)eee... seee leeen { total of seven times }
{or "we see you leave", but it isn't clear to me at all}
Mawww nee naw nihnawnee.... neh, eee nawnkeenuhs, nawnkeenuhs
Mawww nee naw nihnawnee.... neh, eee nawnkeenuhs, nawnkeenuhs
Mawww nee naw nihnawnee.... neh, eee nawnkeenuhs, nawnkeenuhs
{fwd}
{SOS is a palindrome}
you wont hear me
{amoung fwd stuff, maybe "I can not", but I think I'm
imagining it}
{remaining stuff is fwd}
{begin}
===============
And forward...
===============
{begin}
{the following included because deviates from record liner notes}
You won't hear me
You won't hear me
You won't hear me saying
You won't hear me saying to you
{Note that "saying" sounds on the track almost like "singing" or even "sekking"... irrelevant slurring? And I'm not sure about liner's "can't", could be "don't" or especially "won't"}
Can't let you know... ... {etc, as in lyrics on record liner}
You won't hear me
You won't hear me
You won't hear me
You in the room with me {especially note this deviation from record
liner}
You can't hear me saying
You won't hear me saying to you
Can't let you know...
... {etc, as in lyrics on record liner}
{S O S}
Sun ihk nawn, sun ihk nawn-ee-een, ed <n>eeee... naw n' naw nee
naw'
Sun ihk nawn, sun ihk nawn-ee-een, ed <m>eeee... naw n' naw
nee naw'
Sun ihk nawn, sun ihk nawn-ee-een, ed <n>eeee... naw n' naw
nee naw....n
Release yea
{repeated for a total of seven; I seem to hear "ree-lee-syee" every time except once when the Y is missing, ie "Really see"}
{compare the following to inclusions in Wake; same lines different order}
You didn't hear me come in...{or "cummin'"?}
{chopped:}
help me baby help me baby
don't <do it> it's too late
listen to me LISTEN to me
talk to me <at all, and really> listen <to me>
Nih-vee ehneck rinee { see later line }
{even more heavily chopped:}
listen to me LISTEN to me baby
help me HELP me baby
talk to me TALK to <me>
please please TALK to <me> {desperate voice}
Nih-vee ehneck rinee { following line, backward}
...You won't hear me leavin'! {end}
=====================
Pardon me assaulting you with the obvious, but I wanted to point out that while some backward portions turn out quite predictably, the apparent effect of reversing the "chopped" part is totally at odds with what you would predict by cataloging the phonemes and then listing them in reverse order. I think she has made an incredible discovery here. Well, it blows me away, anyway.
Apparently she has a way of putting both fwd and bkwd phonemes into the same burst in a way that allows each to be ignored when played the opposite of its intended direction. Stunning idea.
========================
Postscript April 2, 87; note also that certain of these lines or some very similar appear in Waking the Witch; I'll include just the fragment of my Wake transcription that applies (of course, I don't expect anyone to agree with that either....)
[<a>:K, choppy, from Watching You Without Me]
listen to me LISTEN to me baby
help me HELP me baby
talk to me TALK to me
please please TALK to me [desperate voice]
[<b> Inquisitor; <c> Kate, doubled]:
<b> "YOU WON'T BURN!" <c> Red red roses
<b> YOU WON'T BLEED <c> Pinks and posies
<b> CONFESS TO ME GIRL <c> Red red roses, go down.....
[K, disquised as very odd church choir!] /"Spiritus sanctus in nomineeeeee"/x4
<b> POOR LITTLE THING <c> Red red roses
<b> THE BLACK BIRD <c> Pinks and posies
<b> WINGS IN THE WATER <c> Red red roses,
<b>/<c> GO DOWN..... <c> Pinks and posies
[odd church choir, this time with drum and church bells...ominous]
/"Deus et deu dominummmmmm "/x4
[distorted voice, as an impatient guardian] oh child, child,
[<a> (because voice and emotion corolate), Kate, speaking urgently and at first very rhythmicly; progressively more desperate...]:
<a> Listen to me he lets me by <buy> the (formagistidden?)
ahh!!
< where Magic's hidden?>
<a> help me! listen to me LISTEN to me <c> Red red roses
<a> help me baby! ahh!!! <c> Red red ro...
<a> help me... baby! <c> o...
<a> ....Choked 'im [voice is choked] <c> o....
<Who choked whom?>
OK, so I don't hear the same as other people do. Could have to do with this full house in my head tonight.....
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 87 18:27 PST
From: IED0DXM%UCLAMVS.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu
Subject: YAYUS IT'S TRUE, FUYTHFUL WANS! KUYTE IS GOWD! AH'VE
SEEN THE LAHT!!!
> I think she has made an incredible discovery here. Well, it blows me away, anyway.
> Apparently she has a way of putting both fwd and bkwd phonemes into the same burst in a way that allows each to be ignored when played the opposite of its intended direction. Stunning idea.
Phil, thank you ad infinitum for your transcription, it was really phenomenal, and will be much studied by IED. The above quotation is the most amazing part of your totally wonderful posting. Let IED get this straight: you're saying that the choppy parts (elsewhere referred to by IED as the "scatter-voices") are somehow synched up with a backwards track that SAYS SOMETHING ELSE (namely the new, totally unfamiliar lines quoted in your posting)? You don't list any similar effect with the choppy parts of "Waking the Witch" -- does this mean it only happens with the "Watching You" track?
IED is hyper-excited by this idea of yours, and will go home and test your allegations forthwith. Unfortunately, he still has no recourse but to turn his record backwards by hand on his turntable, as he owns no proper tape recording equipment.
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 87 16:17 PDT
From: IED0DXM%UCLAMVS.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu
Subject: backwards message
About the backwards track, which Mark K. mentions, Phil's elaborately detailed transcription of it is still being examined and compared against the original by IED. So far, as far as IED can make out, it does seem to be correct. That is, the "choppy", or "scatter-voice" sections of "Watching You Without Me" seem to say something like what Phil wrote down when played BACKWARDS. How Kate did this IED has no idea, but it is AMAZING. Unfortunately, this gets us no closer towards a conclusion re the official mystery section of the track.
IED's Missouri friend argues that whatever the solution to the mystery track, its solution almost certainly does not require expensive or hard-to-obtain equipment. The last mystery track was ridiculously simple, in the end.
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 87 20:09:12 PST
From: prs@oliven.atc.olivetti.com (Philip Stephens)
Subject: choppy parts
Well, I took another listen at just the choppy parts of Wake, and it is a lot more difficult to interpret... and therefore my interpretation is more likely to include my own imaginings.
For the earlier choppy stuff, just after 'look who's here to see you', I seem to hear
"... <talk (to me) talk (to me) listen (to me) listen (to me) (you never) talk to me at all>. I don't want you to leave, <but you don't listen to me>."
Closely connected to WYWM.
And a bit later, just after the 2nd 'domini' bit, I seem to hear
"A little bit too hot. I'm <ready/with you> <whenever/where-ever> you are.
High and white <???>... <stick-you-up(?)> <like a table...?...>
Hardly even stand with it, I mean 's without ti(t) "
I don't make much sense of these words, which could be because I miss-heard them, or it could be they weren't meant to make sense. But we don't have to accept that. For instance, "I'm with you where-ever you are, high and white" would make perfect sense (except I'm not sure that's what she said), but I don't see the connection to what I seem to hear before and after. Oh well. Reminds me of fever dreams.
By the way, the voice and rhythm of "Hardly even stand with it" reminds me a lot of the forward (but unclear) "Listen, he takes me by the formagistidden" (or whatever that phrase is).
A dubious guess: 'too hot' and 'ready whenever you are' could be terms used often in the recording studio... but that doesn't explain the rest.
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 87 00:08:28 PST
From: ganzer%trout@nosc.mil (Mark T. Ganzer)
Subject: backwards
Actually, I'm not an electronics genius, but a mechanical engineer in which the word "kludge" is part of my job description. All I have done so far is drill a hole in the back cover to give me access to the speed control potentiometer. On the walkman I'm using (an old Sanyo MG7), this provides control over a fairly broad speed range. When listening to the X4 track, I also had the turntable speed set as low as possible and provided some light finger drag on the edge of the LP to further slow it down. Then I used the speed adjustment on the tape player to find the "optimum" listening speed. You can also run your turntable by hand at a slower speed (ouch!)...
There are actually 10 syllables present (I mis-counted in my previous posting). When slowed down, this becomes very apparent as the echo pattern becomes clearer. The "I get from too many instruments" is pretty clear. The rest requires a little guesswork. There is no way I can fit in your phrase "I bet my mum's gonna give me a little toy" . I can't fit 12 syllables into the pattern of echos I hear! But then you really have to listen to it yourself. Perhaps I can make a tape for you...
MarK T. Ganzer
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 87 16:37:45 EDT
From: evs@dukecdu.mc.duke.edu (Ed Simpson)
Subject: backwards track
I've been catching up on the last 2 months of L-H's and saw Phillip's article, so I went home and listened to WYWM for about 1 hour last night with Philips "backward" interpretations in mind. I used a backward cassette recorded on a friend's 4-track.
The "...hear me leaving" part is questionable because that would be the "You can't hear me leaving" line backward. It just doesn't sound like "hear me leaving" unless you stretch your imagine or have been listening to lots of Led Zep backward lately. The "...You can't hear me" lines are definitely there! Good work, Erik! They seem to have been recorded forward and then played backward during the mix down (not the other way around as IED suggested).
As for the "chopped" parts: your transcription of them as they sound backward seems absolutely correct to me, Philip (except for the second "...listen to me..."). Amazing! As you say, Philip, Kate has managed to incorporate a dualism into the lines placing two different, yet related, messages in the same place.
Backward version continued:
> {SOS is a palindrome}
> you wont hear me
> {amoung fwd stuff, maybe "I can not", but I think I'm
imagining it}
To me it sounds like:
{SOS}
{... but I'm not here ...} (forward)
You can't hear me... (backward)
{but I'm not here ... I'm not here ...} (forward)
Forward:
I beg to differ with your translations here. These sections correspond exactly with the liner notes, as I hear them.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 87 14:20 EDT
From: RpK%acorn@oak.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Backwardsness
I was suprised at how easy it was to happen upon (admittedly) trivial sonic palindromes. I was at Lechmere, Land of Consumer Goods, checking out the Casio SK-5, which can reverse a sample. I sampled me saying `Hello,' and it sounded like `Hello' even backwards, though it didn't have the same character of course.
Perhaps the difficulty in finding such things is overrated, since we tend to think of language on paper as a string of discrete symbols. However, what what is actually 'out there' in spoken language is very plastic and flowing.
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 87 12:05 PDT
From: IED0DXM%UCLAMVS.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu
Subject: backwards
The mystery message section from "Watching You Without Me" begins:
"Don't ignore, don't ignore me. Let me in..."
Special thanks to MarK T. Ganzer for the last part. IED wanted to get his new theory on record, just in case it turns out to be right. If the next Newsletter prints the full mystery message from "Watching You Without Me" and IED hasn't said anything, no-one will ever believe that he was on the right track -- assuming he is.
IED's advice to any interested parties is: Think simple...
-- Andrew
From: blblbl!henrik@WONKO.MIT.EDU (Larry DeLuca)
Date: 12 Jul 88 17:56:03 GMT
Subject: Hidden Messsages and the Like
After a few minutes with my trusty four-track and a cassette tape of Hounds of Love I have the following (don't trust all of it, as I don't 100%, but I believe the bulk to be substantially correct):
The "backward" section is longer than one might anticipate. First, there is the obvious one, which has all of the funny vowel and consonant closures one associates with pronouncing such things backwards ("So ni kloi, so ni kloi-ii..."). After that is an obligotto which is repeated three times and sounds much like "Release Me").
Working backwards, the second ("Release Me") is pretty clearly:
"We see you here"
Going back to "So ni kloi, so ni kloi-ii..." - it is composed of three phrases which are similar, if not identical. Playing backwards, the first (the last you hear when you play the album normally) is:
"Falling asleep on me in bed - [we're] neither working nor smoking"
Now, one might say that this has little relevance to Watching You Without Me, though all sorts of tangents are possible. However, having been in similar situations, I have found that after putting in enough 26-hour days on this sort of a project in a row makes the fatigue toxins flow and suddenly your mind takes on a whole new creative bent [sic]. It certainly says something about the way one feels after spending the umpteenth hour overdubbing a single phrase or hunched over the mixing console. (One will recall "We let the weirdness in" -- which is really much more a blatant statement of how the end of the song came about than directly connected with the rest of Leave it Open (though it is possible to interpret it as well that when you "leave it open" you "let the weirdness in").
Alternate ideas welcome -- I'm curious as anyone else (well, maybe not quite as curious as some...).
larry...
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 88 17:53:34 EDT
From: jsd%UMASS.BITNET@MITVMA.MIT.EDU (Jonathan S. Drukman)
Subject: em tuohtiw uoy gnihctaw
I don't think the message at the end of WYWM is backwards at all. Joe Turner and MarK T. Ganzer and IED had basically convinced me that it was FORWARDS, but produced by kate listening to her forwards message played backwards and then singing it that way so that when the tape was reversed yet again the message she was singing was coming out in the right direction, but the vagaries of singing it backwards had added an unearthly timbre to it all. Try it yourself with your trusty four track!
Sing "and they said they were buried here..." or whatever you think it sounds like and flip the tape - you'll find that you're suddenly singing "we let the weirdness in" only because you couldn't perfectly replicate the waveforms with your voice, you've got a very weird sounding "we let the weirdness in". I have done this, and it's a bitch! Only thing is, I can't quite recall what the consensus was on what Kate was supposedly saying. I'll go check out the track again and see what I can come up with. Anyone want to take a stab at this?
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 88 19:35 PDT
From: IED0DXM%UCLAMVS.BITNET@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: re: Hidden Messsages and the Like
IED read your ideas with great interest and care, Larry, and he certainly agrees with you about the line "We see you here". That's a definite. Heard forwards it's been identified variously as "Really see," "We recede", etc., but all that becomes irrelevant when it's heard backwards and its true meaning pops right out.
The real mystery is the passage directly preceding "We see you here", however, and in regard to that section IED cannot share your confidence in a solution. First of all, it must be said right away that your suggestion that the phrase goes something like "Falling asleep on me in bed--(we're) neither working nor smoking" is incorrect.
Kate has already given several clues to KBC members regarding this "mystery" section of "Watching You Without Me". First of all, the message is a sentence. Second, it's twelve words long. Third and perhaps most important, perhaps, the first word of the message is "Don't". So your theory simply can't be correct, although perhaps part of it is accurate. After spending far more time than is good for his health fussing over this passage, IED has come up with no firm theories. With the help of Love-Hound MarK T. Ganzer he considered the possibility that the words might begin with the words:
"Don't ignore, don't ignore me. Let me in..."
("So ni-kloi, so ni-kloi-ee...Et nee nong...")
As you can see, that solution is based on the very dicey theory that the message is actually not a backwards-masked message at all, but is rather intended only to sound "backwards" while actually containing a forwards message that has been heavily "treated". But MarK and IED can't be said to have any great confidence in this idea -- it remains only a pretty theory.
After four issues (over nearly a 3-year period), IED was thoroughly disheartened to find that even in the latest issue (no. 22, which arrived only after a more-than-ten-month delay), no solution of this puzzle had yet been submitted, and no new clues were being offered. With luck someone will have come close enough to the real answer by the time the next issue is due for Kate to put her fans out of their misery and just plain TELL US THE ANSWER. But IED has no real hope...
Date: 2 Aug 88 01:57:55 GMT
From: munnari!uowcsa.oz.au!stephen%uowcsa.cs.uow.oz.OZ@UUNET.UU.NET
(stephen)
Subject: backwards
Another thing about the "backwards" section from the HoL album. I would agree that it is not a backwards mask. It doesn't seem to have the backward sucking breathing sounds that are so common on backward masked music. I may however try to digitise the music and then reverse the waveform for the hell of it.
Date: Tue, 02 Aug 88 14:37 PDT
From: IED0DXM%UCLAMVS.BITNET@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: backwards
To: Jonathan S. Drukman
Well, IED appreciates hearing that his powers of persuasion are in good working order. Unfortunately, he is no longer as confident in his "backwards- backwards " theory as he once was. After two years and ten months of painstaking, obsessive listening, IED has decided that he basically hasn't the slightest idea what Kate is saying in Watching You Without Me.
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 88 12:18:07 EDT
From: jsd%UMASS.BITNET@MITVMA.MIT.EDU (Jonathan S. Drukman)
Subject: WYWM message
> Well, IED appreciates hearing that his powers of persuasion are in good working order. Unfortunately, he is no longer as confident in his "backwards- backwards " theory as he once was. After two years and ten months of painstaking, obsessive listening, IED has decided that he basically hasn't the slightest idea what Kate is saying in Watching You Without Me.
You may not be convinced, Andrew, but you've certainly convinced me. It fits, doesn't it? Twelve words, beginning with the letter "D" (or was it beginning with the word "Don't"?)... And it fits with the context of the song! Anecdote: at the Katemas party, |>oug and I were hotly debating the merits of TNW and this song rolled around, and I told him what we think the message said. He listened and jumped up and shouted "You're right! Goddamn you, you're right!" and reached out to strangle me. What a clown, that moderator-person! I see no reason to think that this tentative conclusion is not the CORRECT conclusion - have you heard any better suggestions?
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 89 12:40 PDT
From: IED0DXM%OAC.UCLA.EDU@mitvma.mit.edu
Subject: backwards
Since then, the new "mystery message" competition, involving the peculiar bit of music in the middle of Watching You Withou Me, had still not been solved by anyone as of the last issue (which came out in late 1987). The only clues for that one were: it's a sentence of twelve words, beginning with "Don't", and repeated twice (i.e., heard three times in a row). It comes on at 2:19 (if IED recalls correctly), directly after the Morse code "SOS" signals are heard.
Now, is this one backwards or forwards? Most of the suggestions for the solution in the Newsletter have been versions of the message as it is heard when played forwards: (Something like "Zwoh-neekh-lawn, zwoh-neekh-lawneet. Ett need..." etc.) Anyone have any ideas?
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 89 10:15 PDT
From: IED0DXM%OAC.UCLA.EDU@mitvma.mit.edu
Subject: Mainly Watching You Without Me secrets
About "secret messages" in Watching You Without Me, Mark: IED doesn't doubt that you've been listening carefully to the recording: the fact that you noticed the very low-level conversation at the very beginning of the track proves this. But there are still a few more that you apparently haven't caught yet. The most famous one is even the subject of a now-very-old Kate Bush Club competition (begun in 1986, and still not officially solved by anyone). But there are several other secret messages in the recording, as well. Perhaps the best way to show readers where these are is to re-post IED's "complete" version of the lyrics. Try listening to the song while reading this version. And please be under-standing about the still-unsolved gaps--perhaps you have suggestions?
-- Andrew Marvick (IED)
Watching You Without Me
Notes on the above lyrics
++--"It's four ...five...six...seven...": Evidently an exchange between two of the instrumental musicians on the track. The first speaker ("What's that?) is asking for the beat count, and the second is tapping it out for him. This may be authentic studio chat, or an artful reconstruction.
[*--"Don't ignore, don't ignore me...": This "mystery message" immediately follows the Morse code "S.O.S." signal. Still undeciphered as of October, 1988, the message is the subject of a continuing Kate Bush Club competition. The message is a sentence, twelve words long, beginning with the word "Don't". Backwards, it sounds something like: "Zwoh-nikh-noh, zwoh-nikh-noh nee, et-nee nong-widz-aw nee noy." The translation in the lyrics above is only the editor's guess. It is not even known for certain whether the message is forward- or backward-directional.]
[**--"Listen to me, baby...", etc.: The words in this passage, and in one which follows later in the song are broken up--fractured--by some sound-treatment process known only to Kate. Similar to passages from Waking the Witch, these lines seem to contain different words when played backwards. Respectively, these are: "I was here before, you talked to me, you said that you didn't think it was too late to help me..."; and "Talk to me, listen to me, talk to me, talk to me, baby..." These words apparently were recorded within the momentary gaps which break up the forward-directional recording, and like a number of other important lines in the song (though possibly not the "competition" section), they can only be understood when the recording is played backwards.
From: gatech.edu!mit-eddie!eddie.mit.edu!henrik@cs.utexas.edu (Larry
DeLuca)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 89 02:18:49 GMT
Subject: backwards
Would you believe:
"Don't ignore, don't ignore me - let me in I'm alone here now?"
It's twelve words, begins with don't, and reads properly from the forward direction.
Thanks for this go to Joe Turner for being the vessel through which the first of a series of Sensual World Miracles (TM) has been performed. After a first listen to the new album, Joe started speaking in tongues in the car and blurted out these twelve words.
larry...
Date: 19 Oct 89 12:28:20
From: Julian.West@mac.dartmouth.edu
Subject: A banner day for Kate scholarship
Congratulations to Joe Turner!
Joe's reading of the (forwards!) words "Don't ignore me..." is almost certainly correct. I don't even have to go back to the Ninth Wave to be convinced that they fit. It even seems obvious in retrospect. (I'll eat all the above words if I pop the CD in this afternoon and I'm wrong (and if anyone sends me a hard copy!). I'll eat them forwards and backwards.)
Date: Fri, 03 Nov 89 11:17 PST
From: IED0DXM%OAC.UCLA.EDU@mitvma.mit.edu
Subject: NEWS from the KBC!
FINALLY
after four years
the solution to the secret message in Watching You Without Me has been revealed! No, no-one seems to have solved it--there were no winners. Instead a lot of people got the first eight words (IED and MarK T. Ganzer were the first Love-Hounds to come up with these eight words correctly, and IED damn well takes credit for this now!), but nobody got the last four. Nobody. At least a dozen wrong but funny versions are re-printed in the Newsletter, and then the correct answer is given. And it is--
naww, IED thinks he'll leave you all in suspense another day.
-- Andrew Marvick
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 89 15:51 PST
From: IED0DXM%OAC.UCLA.EDU@mitvma.mit.edu
Subject: Secret Message solution
IED apologizes for having forgotten to put everyone out of their misery. He supposes that he figured after four years, what's another day or two...or three...or four.
Anyway, you'll be amazed at how anticlimactic the solution turns out to be. On the other hand, IED guesses that's exactly what Kate wanted it to be. The official solution is:
"Don't ignore, don't ignore me. Let me in, and don't be long."
This is especially amazing because when you listen to it now you'll discover that there is a definite, unignorable extra syllable that Kate pronouces before the third "don't", which is not explained at all by the solution. (Other similar odd sybilant sounds, etc., abound.)
IED's theory therefore is that indeed there may be a separate back-wards track, which it should be possible (now that the official forwards track is known) to isolate from the forwards track. Do the Love-Hounds have any theories?
And what of the (to IED far more provocative) secret message in Experiment IV? Has no-one developed any theories about it?
From: CCJS@cc.nu.oz (James Smith)
Date: 8 Nov 89 09:26:29 -1000
Subject: KBC news
From The Kate Bush Club Newsletter:
We have decided to put you out of your misery regarding the "Watching You Without Me" competition. Many attempts were getting further and further away from the answer; things like "Don't need much, don't need money, believe life goes on and on" and "Don't seek far don't seek for me, let me learn widowly love." Others made us think some of you were on another planet; "Don't somnie morn somnie mornings then mean life goes on and on" and "Don't run on those Blarney mats, in own keen-ness slumps keen-ness."
There were quite a few who thought the word dawn was in there somewhere "Don't be sad don't be lonely, let me see the coming dawn" and "Don't need more dawn each morning, help me that was long enough."
In the last few months we've received many suggestions which have the first 8 words right:--"Don't ignore don't ignore me let me in"... But nobody got the last 4 words right--the suggestions included ,"I'm the dawning of"/"on the dawning hour"/"at the dawning hour"/"I must only knock"/"I was holding on." But the correct answer is ...
DON'T IGNORE DON'T IGNORE ME, LET ME IN AND DON'T BE LONG.
From: gatech.edu!mit-eddie!gaffa.mit.edu!jsd@cs.utexas.edu (Jon Drukman)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 89 14:36:00 GMT
Subject: the message
> DON'T IGNORE ME, LET ME IN AND DON'T BE LONG.
OK, I'm eating my words, and boy am I glad that I flavor them with this special marinara sauce I whipped up. However, this answer is totally unsatisfactory! Where the KBC claims the last phrase is "and don't be long" the music seems to have an extra syllable that just can't be accounted for with this ridiculous phrase! In Joe's theory, the wording was "I'm alone here now" - the problem is that "alone" has the nice unstressed/stressed pattern that the music has, and "and don't" doesn't have enough syllables to cover.
The only way I could account for this is if Kate is stuttering and saying something like "And d-don't be long." Besides, Kate has been lying her face off lately, maybe this is just another example.
Well, now I don't need to go get breakfast anyway. :)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 90 16:19 PDT
From: IED0DXM%OAC.UCLA.EDU@mitvma.mit.edu
Subject: seKreT message clarifiKation
One Wisner asks:
> er, what was it?, he asked stupidly..
Not stupid at all. There were several. Several times in WYWM Kate mutters a few words in a low spoken voice which, when played backwards on your turntable, turn out to be an actual sentence. Also, there is a Morse code "SOS" message. Also, there is a section which sounds like "Really see" repeated over in a high sung melody, which is actually another backwards message: when played backwards that phrase becomes clearly audible as "We see you here." Also, some high-frequency radio signals are audible at different points, and these may actually be decipherable, though IED has no idea how such a thing might be done.
But the "official" secret message in WYWM is the section where you hear Kate singing a melody with "words" that sound a bit like" "Zwoh-nikh-lawn, zwoh-nikh-law-nee. E-e-t-nee-awng, nawn-width-aw-nee-naw..." repeated several times. This section proved to be a very tough nut to crack: it took four issues of the Newsletter before Kate took pity on the fans (none of whom was able to guess all twelve words of the two-sentence message that, we were told, began with the word "Don't") and allowed the correct answer to be published. It was:
"Don't ignore, don't ignore me. Let me in and don't be long."
Exactly what sort of weirdness Kate perpetrated to create the message's unique sound has never been explained by her or anyone else, but there is more or less unanimity among fans now that whatever the method was, the solution was decidedly anti-climactic.
See, this is the sort of thing that passes for humour among the Bush family-members. For five years they no doubt had regular chuckles over the image of Kate's myriad minions poring hour after hour over their turntables seeking the answer to a puzzle the solution to which had essentially no point...
-- Andrew Marvick
From: jburka@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka)
Date: 5 Jul 90 03:37:13 GMT
Subject: Re: seKreT messages, etc
And more on the backwards stuff:
After IED posted his full lyrics to "Watching You Without Me," I pulled out the handy-dandy digitizer and tried listening to some of the stuff.
I have a lot of trouble making out the backward "You don't hear me."s that appear mid/end verse. They're obviously there and that's what she's saying, but it's not as clear as a lot of other backwards-masked stuff (largely 'cause it seems to be meant largely as part of the instrumental score as opposed to a very blatant secret message that is out in the open for anyone to grab (such as Floyd's message on "The Wall", which is only on one track, with no music, so it's easy to manipulate).
What was really fantastic was the repeated "We see you here." that follows the "Don't ignore me..." part. Before IED posted his lyrics, I would have sworn that Kate was singing this part forward--I wasn't sure about the lyrics (I figgered they were something like "We really see."), but I had no idea this was backwards-masked. When you turn it around, you hear some amazing singing. Simply too cool--something that sounds 'real' both forward and backward (I never really agreed with the stuff about "We let the weirdness in"--sound gibberish to me backward.)
I also played around a bit with the chopped-up parts on WYWM.
The first time I digitized the first part, I happened to only do one track (I think it was the right track, but I'm not positive). I reversed it, then listened for IED's purported backward message--"I was here before, you talked to me, you said that you didn't think it was too late to help me...". What I heard, though, was the forward message ("Help me baby, help me baby, talk to me..."), though it was a bit choppier. It sounded like KaTe had simply "chopped" up the original tape and inserted every-other bit backward--where the backwards bits were a little shorter than the forward. When I tried digitizing it with both tracks, I heard IED's message--and his transcription seems pretty close. I haven't yet had the chance to try this part with just the left track; perhaps this will shed some light on the matter.
From: IEDSRI@aol.com
Date: Sun, 14 May 1995 02:22:14 -0400
Subject: "Watching You Without Me" lyrics
Robb writes:
> Yes, but these aren't the words that are baffling us. It's the 'bridge,' which sounds something like "(something) want Sunday morning...that me and that's all he knows" repeated several times, then "receive...receive." Anyone know what these are? (No they're not in LYRICS)
You're right that the official printed lyrics are incomplete, but the "complete" text of the song can be found in "The Garden" (via ftp). Here is the most recent version, which IED recommends be read along with the music:
"Watching You Without Me" Music and lyrics by Kate Bush
[complete lyrics see The Garden]
... ... ... ... ... ... [Morse: "...SOS..."]
"Don't ignore, don't ignore me,
Let me in, [ * ]
And don't be long."
... " ..." ...
"We see you here. [backwards**]
"We see you here.
"We see you here.
(You don't hear me come in.)
"Help me, baby! Help me, baby! Talk to me!
Listen to me, listen to me! Talk to me! Help [ *** ]
... ...
----------------
* --"Don't ignore, don't ignore me...":
This verse, the erstwhile "mystery message", immediately follows the Morse code "S.O.S." signal. The message was long the subject of a Kate Bush Club competition. It sounds more like "Zwoh-nikh-noh, zwoh-nikh-noh nee, et-nee nong-widz-aw nee noy" than the actual words Kate Bush is singing. This is because the phrase was originally spoken, then recorded and played backwards; Kate listened to the sound of the reversed phonetics and learned to sing them with an inverse of the melody she intended for that section; and this in turn was recorded and fed into the final recording in backwards form, creating the correct forward words with the original, intended melody, but sounding "backwards" and very odd.
It should be noted that there *are* several actual backwards lines on this recording (see **).
** -- "We see you here." This is sung and heard backwards. There may be more going on here than just this line, however; several supplemental readings have been posited over the years.
*** --"Listen to me, baby...", etc.: The words in this passage, and in one which follows later in the song, are fractured by some sound-treatment process known only to Kate. Similar to passages from "Waking the Witch", these lines seem to contain *different* words when played backwards. Respectively, these are: "I was here before, you talked to me, you said that you didn't think it was too late to help me..."; and "Talk to me, listen to me, talk to me, talk to me, baby..." These latter words apparently were recorded within the momentary gaps which break up the forward-directional recording.]
From: IEDSRI@aol.com
Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 01:27:15 -0400
Subject: Morse code correKTion
IED stands corrected:
> From: brian clayton@csufresno.edu
> I read your lyrics to WYWM, and I'm still trying to pick out all the things you mentioned; however, I thought I'd throw this one observation back to you: the SOS message seems to me to be three complete repetitions of ... ... , that is:
... --- ... ... --- ... ... --- ...
with the last "--- ..." being drowned out.This is opposed
to your interpretation:
... ... ... ... ... ...
For what it's worth,
The truth is always worth a great deal to this fan. Thanks.
-- Andrew Marvick (IED)
S R I
From: JWALKER.ENG-MAIL@SMTP.INTECOM.COM (Walker, John)
Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 10:26 CDT
Subject: jittering voice
[IED says:]
> *** --"Listen to me, baby...", etc.: The words in this passage, and in one which follows later in the song, are fractured by some sound-treatment process known only to Kate.
I might be able to shed some light on this. One very simple way to achieve the "fractured" sound of these passages would be to use a switch, either on the microphone itself or by routing the signal through a switch after it was recorded, and just turn the vocal signal on and off while recording it to an open track. There is some other processing going on here as well which I can't identify - sounds like reverb and some midrange boost, but it could be more than that. There are electronic methods of achieving this effect but I don't think they would be "fractured" enough.
Bear in mind that I have no idea what was actually done, only my ears and a little time in the recording studio. 8-)
From: btd@carina.cray.com (Bryan Dongray)
Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 13:23:27 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: jittering voice
IED wrote: It sounds more like "Zwoh-nikh-noh, zwoh-nikh-noh nee, et-nee nong-widz-aw nee noy" than the actual words Kate Bush is singing.
...
> "Talk to me, listen to me, talk to me, talk to me, baby..."
> These words apparently were recorded within the momentary gaps which break up the forward-directional recording.]
...
> fractured by some sound-treatment process known only to Kate.
AND John Walker wrote:
> I might be able to shed some light on this. One very simple way to achieve the "fractured" sound of these passages would be to use a switch, either on the microphone itself or by routing the signal through a switch after it was recorded, and just turn the vocal signal on and off while recording it to an open track.
I'd just like to point out that the two versions you hear in the song, sound as if they could be cut and "magically" put back together, they would each be the gaps of the other. Listen the the T in talk in each version, or the L in listen.
One way to achieve this is to have two tracks recording, and quickly keep switching the input between each.
Here it is as a picture:
/------Recording 1 (on blank)
/
Words being spoken ----< switching at about 10 times/second
\
\------Recording 2 (on blank)
Listening back to each recorded track individually will give this effect, I believe both tracks were used (sequentially) with the rest of the instruments. Sounds excellent, I wonder who had the idea to do this?
From: IEDSRI@aol.com
Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 21:52:02 -0400
Subject: backwards
In reference to the "backwards" (actually double-backwards, thus forwards-again) passage in "Watching You Without Me", John Walker (who is too kind!) remarks:
> This had been bothering me as well. I assumed it was another language. I would be interested in knowing how this was discovered.
After several issues (and some two years) without a complete solution to the content of the message ("Don't ignore, don't ignore me/Let me in and don't be long"), the Kate Bush Club at long last put its members out of their misery and published the longed-for information.
In re the later, "broken-up" sections of the same song (which sound much like the broken-up bits from "Waking the Witch"), IED wrote:
>> *** --"Listen to me, baby...", etc.: The words in this passage, and in one which follows later in the song, are fractured by some sound-treatment process known only to Kate.
John replied:
> I might be able to shed some light on this. One very simple way to achieve the "fractured" sound of these passages would be to use a switch, either on the microphone itself or by routing the signal through a switch after it was recorded, and just turn the vocal signal on and off while recording it to an open track. There is some other processing going on here as well which I can't identify - sounds like reverb and some midrange boost, but it could be more than that.
IED too is convinced that there is more to this passage than you describe, mainly because when you listen to this section backwards, the broken-up bits sound much the same as forwards --except that the words are not the same! (Both forwards and backwards messages were included in the lyrics as posted the other day by IED.) This remarkable fact led IED to suppose that Kate actually synchronized the chopped-up slivers of silence in the forward-directional track with the chopped-up slivers of *vocals* in a second, similar-but-not-identical *backward*-directional track. It was this process to which IED was referring as a "sound-treatment known only to Kate". Certainly it is the only such instance of which IED is aware.
Thanks for your interest in this endlessly fascinating subject. The depths of "Watching You Without Me" have not yet been plumbed!
-- Andrew Marvick (IED)
S R I
From: nessus@mit.edu (Douglas Alan)
Date: 19 May 1995 22:50:53 GMT
Subject: sound treatment
IED writes:
> This remarkable fact led IED to suppose that Kate actually synchronized the chopped-up slivers of silence in the forward-directional track with the chopped-up slivers of *vocals* in a second, similar-but-not-identical *backward*- directional track. It was this process to which IED was referring as a "sound-treatment known only to Kate". Certainly it is the only such instance of which IED is aware.
While it is true that I too have not heard this treatment elsewhere, it doesn't seem like it would be hard to do, though it would require a bit of patience. Just
I am sure you can do this with less bother using most digital sound editing systems, such as can be found on Macintosh computers.
From: 100427.2530@compuserve.com (Peter Chow)
Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 03:01:58
Subject: "Watching You Without Me" lyrics
From: IEDSRI@aol.com
> *** --"Listen to me, baby...", etc.: The words in this passage, and in one which follows later in the song, are fractured by some sound-treatment process known only to Kate. Similar to passages from "Waking the Witch", these lines seem to contain *different* words when played backwards. Respectively, these are: "I was here before, you talked to me, you said that you didn't think it was too late to help me..."; and "Talk to me, listen to me, talk to me, talk to me, baby..." These latter words apparently were recorded within the momentary gaps which break up the forward-directional recording.]
Having listened to the 'chopped' passage backwards I can find no words inserted in the gaps backwards. Come to think of it, had there been something in the gaps they would not have been gaps!
I read in an article (either in a KBC mag or some interview) that Del said the gaps in the sound for the chopping effect were created by spot erasing. Spot erasure is where the erase head on the tape machine is engaged with the tape in edit mode such that the tape transport does not function and the tape can be moved past the heads by hand. It is normally used for erasing small faults such as pops and gliches that are too small to be erased in real time.
The chopped effect is made more effective by alternating between the left and right channels.
This process must have taken a considerable number of hours to execute but gives rise to the controlled loss of words such that they are inteligable. The use of an audio gate triggered from an oscillator or simply flicking the mute switches on the desk would have given unpredictable results, given that at the time of mixing Kate only had a manual Soundcraft desk.
The subsequent major refit of her studio would have made the effect much easier to program on the SSL desk (a G series with Total Recall, I think). The mutes could be programmed into the desk and referenced to time code from tape to produce the same effect without erasing the recording.
Peter Chow from Brighton (UK)
written by Love-Hounds
compiled and edited
by
Wieland Willker
Sept 1995 June 1996