* * DREAMING * *

A 'Best of' Love-Hounds Collection

The Dreaming

The Songs

"Get Out Of My House"

Date: Sat, 9 May 87 17:52:38 EDT
From: Dave Hsu <hsu@eneevax.umd.edu>
Subject: background vocals

As Dave's inquisitive nature returns, he asks:

In "Get Out of My House", there are two snippets of background vocals (no, not backwards messages) under KT's lines `My home, my joy...', the first being `let me in'. What does the second one (at 2:09, for you out there with CD's) say? I assume it must be Paddy's voice, but none of the rest of his lines in the song have quite the same inflection; the voice tremors quite a bit. Headphones and playing that loop over and over again at high volume just aren't enough for my overwhelmed ears.

-dave

Date: Sun, 10 May 87 16:31 PDT
From: IED0DXM%UCLAMVS.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu
Subject: background vocals

Dave, IED can help you with the line at 2:09 in "Get Out of My House". The line is "It's cold out here!" and it does sound like Paddy doing one of his Irish-y voices. Don't credit IED with this solution, he got it from amazingly serious Kate fan Dawn Uebel, who wrote in her discovery (along with many other interesting observations) to Break-Through a while back.

-- Andrew

Date: Mon, 28 Aug 89 13:39:16 CDT
From: motcid!marble!meadley@uunet.UU.NET (A. Meadley)
Subject: Get Out Of My House

Whilst playing "The Dreaming" to an Asian friend recently, he commented that the section (which sounds like) "Dagga dagim da da, daggim da da", is in fact derived from an Indian dance discipline called the Rhag (this spelling may be incorrect). It is a very formal dance in which the instructor chants and the students perform the intricate dance to this chanting.

Exactly where Kate picked this up and just what the precise significance of this is to the song, we can merely conjecture. (Or ask IED's KT knowledge bank :-) ), but I believe Kate does listen to quite a bit of ethnic material.

Ant in Chicago.

Date: Sat, 23 Sep 89 20:47:29 EDT
From: Tippi Chai <martinn@csri.toronto.edu>
Subject: Drum Talk

>Whilst playing "The Dreaming" to an Asian friend recently, he commented that the section (which sounds like) "Dagga dagim da da, daggim da da", is in fact derived from an Indian dance discipline called the Rhag (this spelling may be incorrect). It is a very formal dance in which the instructor chants and the students perform the intricate dance to this chanting.

Please tell your friend a) he's very imaginative and b) he's got his raag and his taal mixed up. Raag (or raga) is to Indian music as what melodies and scales are to Western music, whereas taal (or tala) refers to rhythm cycles. Before I continue, let me establish my "authority" in this issue: I study and perform Kathak, one of the six classical dances of India. Kathak is different from the other classical dances such as Kathakali and Bharat Natchyam in that besides gestures and story-telling, we also have "abstract" compositions that deal only with rhythmic patterns, which allows for infinite variations and improvisation.

Recitation is used in two ways; first, to keep the beats in the rhythm cycle, and second, to recite the composition which we dance. In the first instance, the syllables ("bols") fall always on the beat. In the second, the bols are used to dictate the rhythmic patterns that we dance. Whereas the passage from GOoMH in question is indeed a rhythm pattern, it is too short for a composition, and compositions do not contain a single repeating pattern. Nor are compositions repeated ad infinitum as in the song. Further more, I have never heard bols that sound like that. Now I'm not saying that it is not possible that Kate heard some recitation somewhere and incorporated it into her music. However, it is unlikely that she would just make up some rhythm pattern and throw in some "nonsense" symbols of her own, given the other examples that show her to be meticulously true to the original in such cases. One such instance is the "funeral chorus" from Nosferatu,

Of course, I'm only Chinese and not Indian, and maybe the passage *DID* come from some aspects of Indian music that I don't know of. However, unless someone with more authority (someone from the Bush family or a guru of Indian music) convinces me otherwise, I'll say that the passage has nothing to do with Indian music.

Lastly (whew!) did I really save the net "hundreds if not thousands of dollars" by lumping six posting into one?

Tippi Chai

Date: Mon, 1 Apr 91 15:16:11 -0500
From: gb10@gte.com (Gregory Bossert)
Subject: slamming!

a few more thoughts on get out of my house

- this may be most disturbing song i have ever heard, and i've heard some really out-there stuff. i usually have to take a walk or something to recover from listening to it...

- best line (IMHO, of course):

"they come with their weather hanging around them"

i am in no way convinced that there is a "correct" interpretation of this song -- one of the things i love about this album is the strange mix of clarity and uncertainty.

Date: Mon, 8 Apr 91 16:37:21 EDT
From: Andrew B Marvick <abm4@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu>
Subject: influences

In GOoMH, the pursuer (male) also changes into a mule--just as he has been able to adapt to the earlier tactics of the pursued (female). Btw, the pursuer says, at the point in question, "Let me in!" Vickie, IED believes (unless he remembers incorrectly, which is certainly very possible) that Kate said GOoMH was "inspired by", not actually "based on", Stephen King's novel, The Shining. She also said the movie Alien had had something to do with the genesis of her recording. But clearly the most direct influence was The Twa Magicians, the old folk song--not, as far as IED can tell, a musical influence, but definitely a narrative one.

Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1991 19:58:00 -0800
From: gatech!chinet.chi.il.us!katefans@EDDIE.MIT.EDU (Chris Williams)
Subject: "Get out of my House" line revealed!

Vickie here. We just heard something in "Get Out Of My House" that we'd never heard before! I know that song (the whole *album*) is packed with hidden tidbits, that's why it's my favorite, but this is something *SO* clear we're shocked we never understood it before.

Chris had the main speakers unhooked while working on them and we wanted to listen to music so I put on TD and the sound came out of the back "surround" speakers***.

The vocals during the refrain ("I am the concierge, chez-moi, honey) completely disappeared and we could hear the doors slamming, etc. and the voice we'd heard before saying "Let me in", but during the second refrain (2:08 minutes into the song), we *very* clearly heard a male voice saying...

"It's cold out here"

as Kate started to sing "My home, my joy...") right before the "Get out of my...(Won't letcha in) Get out of my house"

We'd (of course) heard that voice but never could understand what he was saying. Maybe we were the only ones who never understood it before, if so, forgive our excitement. It's as delightful a feeling as the first time we heard the sheep and the dogs in the song "The Dreaming" and the first time we understood "What about Edward G?"

Ah, life's little pleasures! I love details and that's why TD would be my DID, because it's packed full of 'em.

Chris interlude:

*** Technical note: We have a Yamaha AVC-50 A/V Pre-amp. This unit has Dolby surround circuitry, so with the main speakers disconnected I switched the surrund mode to "Dolby stereo surround." So all we heard was the contents of the left channel minus the contents of the right channel; i.e. we heard the stuff that was only in the left or right channel but not in both. So we didn't hear the main vocal, just the effected "co-main vocal" that Kate usually uses (you usually hear three voices at once in the "main vocal"). In movies this effect is used so the main vocal track voices are not in the back speakers, but that gun-shots, etc. are.

Vickie (one of Vickie'n'Chris)

From: rhill@netrun.cts.com (ronald hill)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 22:23:32 PST
Subject: *** Get Out Of My House Annotated lyrics ***

GET OUT OF MY HOUSE ANNOTATED LRYICS

by Ron Hill, Andrew Marvick (IED), and Doug Alan.

Compiled and edited by Ron Hill

ALTHOUGH YOU'VE OFTEN WRITTEN ROMANTIC SONGS "BABOOSHKA", "WUTHERING HEIGHTS", "THE WEDDING LIST" [ROMANTIC??] THEY'VE NEVER BEEN HAPPY BOY-MEETS-GIRL -AND-LIVES-HAPPILY-EVER-AFTER AFFAIRS. IS THAT BECAUSE OF SOME PRIVATE PERVERSITY?

KATE: For me that's how real situations are. Whenever I've experienced a relationship, or the people around me have, it's always ended up being incredibly complicated because that's the way human beings are. Nothing is simple, it always ends up being something else or dying and that's what I find so interesting the drive behind human beings and the way they get screwed up. (1982, Melody Maker)

KATE: The song is called "Get Out of My House," and it's all about the human as a house. The idea is that as more experiences actually get to you, you start learning how to defend yourself from them. The human can be seen as a house where you start putting up shutters at the windows and locking the doors not letting in certain things. I think a lot of people are like this they don't hear what they don't want to hear, don't see what they don't want to see. It is like a house, where the windows are the eyes and the ears, and you don't let people in. That's sad because as they grow older people should open up more. But they do the opposite because, I suppose, they do get bruised and cluttered. Which brings me back to myself; yes, I have had to decide what I will let in and what I'll have to exclude. (1982, Company)

KATE: The Shining is the only book I've read that has frightened me. While reading it I swamped[???] around in its snowy imagery and avoided visiting certain floors of the big, cold hotel, empty for the winter. As in Alien, the central characters are isolated, miles (or light years) away from anyone or anything, but there is something in the place with them. They're not sure what, but it isn't very nice.

The setting for this song continues the theme the house which is really a human being, has been shut up locked and bolted, to stop any outside forces from entering. (1982, KBC 12)

("Hee-haw! Hee-haw! Hee-haw!")
When you left, the door was
(slamming!)
You paused in the doorway
(slamming!)
As though a thought stole you away.
(slamming!)
I watched the world pull you away.
(Lock it!)

In this first section the only section where the other character is show as leaving as apposed to persuing, so this first section could be describing the actual breakup of the relationship that caused the character to "lock her house."

KATE: The person has been hurt and has decided to keep everybody out. (1982, KBC 12)

So I run into the hall,
(Lock it!)
Into the corridor.
(Lock it!)
There's a door in the house
(slamming).
I hear the lift descending.
(slamming!)
I hear it hit the landing,
(slamming!)
See the hackles on the cat
(standing).

KATE: ...but the thing has got into the house upstairs. It's descending in the lift, and now it approaches the door of the room that you're hiding in. (1982, KBC 12)

With my key I
(lock it).
With my key I
(lock it up).
With my key I
(lock it).
With my key I
(lock it up).

I am the concierge chez-moi, honey.
Won't letcha in for love, nor money.
("Let me in!")
My home, my joy.
I'm barred and bolted and I
(Won't let you in).
(Get out of my house!)

KATE: They plant a "concierge" at the front door to stop any determined callers from passing... (1982, KBC 12)

KATE: The idea with that song is that the house is actually a human being who's been hurt and he's just locking all the doors and not letting anyone in. The person is so determined not to let anyone in that one of his personalities is a concierge who sits in the door, and says "you're not coming in here" like real mamma. (1982, Melody Maker)

Concierge is the French title of a live-in building-attendant or manager--an ancient profession in Europe, usually associated with correspondingly ancient old women (though men can also be called "concierges"). "Chez-moi" means "at my house", or "at my place." So the line in implies that the house's spirit (this is really that of the house itself--as Kate once explained--which has developed a kind of human consciousness over the years) is fiercely protecting its solitude from the invading force (the male personality cooing "Let me in!"): "I'm the manager in my own house, honey."

Interestingly, Kate describe the "concierge" as "one of his personalities". The "his" may imply that the male/female angle of the song is not as important to Kate as the overall theme. Note that the protagonist is definately described as a woman later in the song.

Another interesting thing about the description "one of his personalities" is that it implies that the other "voices" Kate uses in the song may be other "personalities" of the woman. Kate is known to have been influenced early on by the philospher Gurdjieff, who held each man had numerous "personalities", and this song may reflect that influence.

KATE: I am absolutely fascinated by the states that people throw and put on. And, you know, I think that that is the most fascinating thing there is to write about really, the way that people just distort things and the things they think and the things they do. And it's really fun for me if I can find an area of the personality that is slightly exaggerated or distorted and, if I feel I can identify with it enough, then try to cast a person as perfectly as I can in terms of that particular character trait, especially if I don't really show those kinds of things myself. Take anger for instance: it's really fun to write from the point of view of someone who's really angry, like in "Get Out of My House" on the last album. Because I very rarely show anger, although obviously I do sometimes feel it. (1985, Musician)

No stranger's feet
Will enter me.
(Get out of my house!)
I wash the panes,
(Get out of my house!)
I clean the stains away.
(Get out of my house!)

"No stranger's feet" on the level of the metaphor for the house, presumably means the person other walking into the house. On a more literal level, a" foot" is a measurement in poetry, and this could be saying that "your words will not enter me". Others have read "feet" as meaning "sexual organs", as in "you will not have intercourse with me."

"Wash the panes" has been read by some to mean crying.

This house is as old as I am.
(Slamming.)
This house knows all I have done.
(Slamming.)
They come with their weather hanging 'round them,
(Slamming.)
But can't knock my door down!
(Slamming.)

With my key I
(lock it).
With my key I
(lock it).

This house is full of m-m-my mess.
(Slamming.)
This house is full of m-m-mistakes.
(Slamming.)
This house is full of m-m-madness.
(Slamming.)
This house is full of, full of, full of fight!
(Slam it.)

With my keeper I
(clean up).
With my keeper I
(clean it all up).
With my keeper I
(clean up).
With my keeper I
(clean it all up).

It's interesting how "key" has now become "keeper", perhaps implying that the energy that had one protected the protagonist, is now "keeping" her.

I am the concierge chez-moi, honey.
Won't letcha in for love, nor money.
("It's cold out here!")

The voice on "It's cold out here!" sounds like Paddy doing one of his Irish-y voices.

My home, my joy. I'm barred and bolted and I (Get out of my house!) (Won't let you in).

(Get out of my house!)
No stranger's feet
(Get out of my house!)
Will enter me.
(Get out of my house!)
I wash the panes.
(Get out of my house!)
I clean the stains.
(Get out of my house!)
(Get out of my house!)
(Get out of my house!)
(Get out of my house!)
Won't enter me.
(Get out of my house!)
(Get out of my house!)
(Get out of my house!)
(Get out of my house!)
Yeah! Won't let you in!
(Get out of my house!)
(Get out of my house!)
"Let me in!

KATE: ...and now it approaches the door of the room that you're hiding in. (1982, KBC 12)

"Woman let me in!
Let me bring in the memories!
Woman let me in!
Let me bring in the Devil Dreams!"

KATE: The track kept changing in the studio. This is something that's never happened before on an album. That one was maybe half the length it is now. The guitarist got this really nice riff going, and I got this idea of two voices a person in the house, trying to get away from this thing, but it's still there. (1982, ZigZag)

I will not let you in!
Don't you bring back the reveries.
I turn into a bird,
Carry further than the word is heard.

KATE: So in order to get away, they change their form first into a bird trying to fly away from it. (1982, ZigZag)

"Woman let me in!
I turn into the wind.
I blow you a cold kiss,
Stronger than the song's hit."

KATE: The thing can change as well, so that changes into this wind, and starts blowing all icy. (1982, ZigZag)

Possibly the "song hit" is the bird's "song" so this line would be saying "my wind is stronger then your song.", although there is no other evidence that the "bird" sings any song in the song.

I will not let you in.
I face towards the wind.
I change into the Mule.
"I change into the Mule."
Hee-haw! Hee-haw! Hee-haw-hee-haw-hee-haw-hee-haw...
"Hee-haw! Hee-haw! Hee-haw!"

KATE: The idea is to turn around and face it. You've got this image of something turning round and going "Aah!" just to try and scare it away. (1982, ZigZag)

KATE: You're cornered, there's no way out, so you turn into a bird and fly away, but the thing changes shape, too. You change, it changes; you can't escape, so you turn around and face it, scare it away.

"Hee Haw"
"Hee Haw"
"Hee Haw" (1982, KBC 12)

KATE: I think the mule is that kind of... the stupid confrontation... I mean, there's not really that much to read into it. It was the idea of playing around with changing shape, and the mule imagery was something I liked inordinately. The whole thing of this wild, stupid, mad creature just turning around and going, you know, "Eeyore! Eeyore!" [KATE MAKES CONVINCING EEYORE SOUNDS.] I don't know if you saw Pinocchio, but there's an incredibly heavy scene in there, where one of the little boys turns into a donkey a mule. And it's very heavy stuff.

I HAVEN'T SEEN THAT SINCE ABOUT SIX, BUT I THINK I REMEMBER THAT...IT'S A STRONG IMAGE.

Well, maybe you should see it again. It's a good film. (1985, Love-Hounds)

Although Kate has never specifically mentioned the male in the song also turning into a mule, there appears to be two seperate "mules" at the end, which would indicate that he did so, especially since the second mule has a male "voice", credited to Paul Hardiman.

The reason that Kate made the choice of the mule, may be explained by her description of it above as a "stupid" animal . Its actions, in other words, are "thought-less": prompted by the crudest form of emotional stimuli or instincts. Kate has more than once insisted that music (art) is "pure emotion"--especially in the Russell Harty interview. When Harty patronizingly says "We've been to Bronte-land...Where will the arrow of your powerful intellect fall next?" Kate's immediate and strong reply is: "Well, I think the answer to that is that art is emotion . Art is pure emotion..." Her reply has always seemed to IED to represent an implied preference for the value of emotion over the intellect. If so, the choice of the "stupid" mule as the guise in which the heroine of GOoMH finally faces her "problem" makes excellent sense.

Also, of course, Kate may have been thinking of the expression "stubborn as a mule", which describes the character she was singing about perfectly.

Dha Dhin Dha Dha Dha/Dha Dha Dha Dhin Dha Dha/Dha Dkin Dha Dha [Repeats to fade out]

This is credited as "drum talk" to Esmail Sheikh. (Whether or not the above transcription is entirely correct is unclear). This is from East Indian Classical music and is called bol. The process of studying drumming in this form of music involves both learning to speak drumming patterns in bols and learning to play the patterns. Whether or not this symbolizes anything that may have a direct relationship to the theme of Kate's song is unclear.

CONCLUSIONS

KATE: And that's actually what the whole song is about someone who is running away from something they don't want to face, but wherever they go, the thing will follow them. Basically, you can't run away from things you've got to confront things. And it's using the person as the imagery of a house, where they won't let anyone in, they lock all the doors and windows, and put a guard on the front door. But I think the essence of the song is about someone trying to run away from things they don't like and not being able to escape because you can't. (1985, Love-Hounds)

The quote from Kate describes the "point" or "moral" of the song (note how this seems to lead right into Running Up That Hill, the first song on the next album). But does the song have a positive or negative ending? There are several points of view.

1) The "happy" ending. That the man and woman seemed to have found something in common in their muleness and sang to each other. The "drum talk" at the end could represent some kind of morse-code, meaning that they have found another way to communicate now that the primary channels have broken down.

However, many people find the whole song, including the ending, to be too jarring to be describing something "happy".

2) The "unhappy" ending. In this interpetation, the characters in this song don't end up communicating. This would be reflected in the song by the extented "mumbling-like" sounds at the end of the song, representing the total breakdown of communications between the two.

This would mean that the ending of the song was intended as a kind of negative warning about what could happen when you "lock" yourself up so tightly.

2) The "hopeful" ending. In this interpetation, the ending does indeed contain the "some sort of hope in there" that Kate said (of The Ninth Wave ) she feels should be part of all works of art. In the above quote, Kate was says that the theme of the song was the error people can make of running away from their problems, and that the only way to solve problems is to confront them. She also explains that when the female character in Get Out of My House changes into a mule (whether a stubborn one or a stupid one), she does finally turn and confront the male character (who has changed into a mule as well). This is the quintessential Kate Bush "ending"--sad but hopeful, very much like the ending of The Ninth Wave . In both, the protagonist has come to a new realization of the "right way" to proceed/feel/think, and is therefore able better to resign herself to whatever fate might befall her, whether that fate be "happy" or not. And this, of course, is an essential element of Kate's own avowed philosophy, described by her in numerous interviews.

So we do not learn what actually happens when the two mules confront each other in GOoMH ; nor is it important. What is important is that the protagonist has finally been able to confront the force which threatens her--she is no longer running from it. In a similar way the heroine of The Ninth Wave , in the final bars of The Morning Fog , has found reasons for living: whether she will actually survive the physical ordeal or not, she has at least gained a new appreciation of the important aspects of her life (love of family; and faith in the human spirit, so to speak, as represented by her "future self" in Jig of Life ). It's therefore extremely important, IED believes, that both The Dreaming and Hounds of Love , as albums, conclude with the same basic situation. In both, the ultimate "fate" of the protagonist is not resolved, because that is not the artist's concern. Rather, it is the insight that those protagonists gain along the way that matters.

OTHER QUOTES

It should be noted that the above quotes have been re-arranged in such a way that there meaning may have been somewhat distorted. In other words, the quotes may not actually relate to the lryics they are put next to.

Following is the remaining quotes relating to the song.

I TELL KATE THAT THE SPACE BETWEEN MY EARS FELT LIKE PALE JELLY AFTER FIRST EXPOSURE TO THIS ONE ON THE WALKMAN. SHE IS PLEASED!

Oh, good! It's meant to be a bit scary. It's just the idea of someone being in this place and there's something else there... You don't know what it is. (1982, ZigZag)

* I SUPPOSE IN TERMS OF GENERAL IDEAS, KATE, MAYBE WE COULD TALK A LITTLE ABOUT THAT. JUST WHERE YOU PLUCK THESE IDEAS FROM, IS THIS SOMETHING THAT OCCURS TO YOU IN EVERY DAY LIFE OR DO YOU DISCIPLINE YOURSELF TO SIT DOWN AND THINK ABOUT THINGS?

They're very often ideas that come out of other people's creations. Films and books are very much big inspirations to me. For instance, there's a track on this album that was... really the whole atmosphere was inspired by The Shining. I read the book and it was such an incredibly strong atmosphere, very creepy, very haunted, and I used it to like set a song using the same atmosphere, but instead of it being a hotel it being like a house, which is also a human being. And just playing with the feelings that I got when I read the book and trying to put that same kind and strangeness into the song. (1982, Dreaming debut)

I FIND THE USE OF STRONG SYMBOLISM AND METAPHOR AND ALLUSIONS IN YOUR LYRICS TO BE EXTREMELY INTERESTING. FOR EXAMPLE, IN "GET OUT OF MY HOUSE," THE WOMAN WHO IS SINGING THE SONG HAS BEEN LEFT BY HER LOVER AND FEELS HURT, AND IDENTIFIES HERSELF WITH A HOUSE. THIS IS A BIBLICAL ALLUSION. WHEN SHE SAYS "I WASH THE PANES", IT IS A TRIPLE ENTENDRE, BECAUSE SHE'S SAYING SHE'S WASHING THE WINDOWS OF HER BODY, WHICH ARE THE EYES. THIS MEANS SHE'S CRYING, AND BY DOING SO, SHE'S WASHING THE HURT AND PAIN AWAY. THEN SHE SAYS "NO STRANGER'S FEET WILL ENTER ME" SAYING THAT SHE WON'T LET ANYONE INTO HER HOUSE, WHICH IS SAYING SHE WON'T LET ANYONE INTO HER BODY, WHICH IS ALSO REINFORCED BY THE BIBLICAL USE OF "FEET" AS A EUPHEMISM FOR "PRIVATE PARTS". THE LAYERS OF MEANING HERE, ARE PRETTY INCREDIBLE.

THEN A MAN TRIES TO ENTER HER LIFE AGAIN, BUT SHE'S TOO SCARED, AND SHE TRIES TO ESCAPE BY FLYING AWAY, BUT HE TURNS INTO THE WIND. SHE THEN TURNS INTO A MULE, PERHAPS FOR ITS STUBBORN ABILITY TO WITHSTAND THE WIND. AND THEN HE ALSO TURNS INTO A MULE. NOW IT SEEMS THAT THEY HAVE A GROUND FOR COMMUNICATION. BECAUSE MULES ARE NEUTER, AND THEY CAN COMMUNICATE ON A PLATONIC LEVEL RATHER THAN A SEXUAL LEVEL.

NOW A FRIEND OF MINE BELIEVES THAT THIS LAST PART IS A FLAW IN THE SONG, BECAUSE MULES ARE NOT REALLY NEUTER AFTER ALL. THEY ARE ONLY STERILE. PERSONALLY, I THINK IT ISN'T A FLAW BECAUSE THE IDEA COMES ACROSS LOUD AND CLEAR TO ME, AND SOMEHOW IT SEEMS THAT "I CHANGE INTO THE AMOEBA: OOZE! OOZE!" JUST WOULDN'T WORK SO WELL. SO THE QUESTION IS, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS INTERPRETATION? AND COULD YOU RESPOND TO MY FRIEND'S SLIGHT CRITICISM?

And what was your friend's criticism?

HE SAID THAT THE ENDING IS A FLAW BECAUSE MULES ARE NOT REALLY NEUTER, THEY ARE ONLY STERILE.

What does he mean?

WELL, IT SEEMS TO ME AND TO HIM THAT THE END OF THE SONG IS SORT OF A POSITIVE NOTE BECAUSE THEY'VE FOUND A GROUNDS FOR COMMUNICATION. AND SORT OF ON A PLATONIC LEVEL, BECAUSE MULES MIGHT BE SEEN AS BEING PLATONIC, BECAUSE...

Why?

OH... WELL... MULES ARE STERILE... UH... A DONKEY AND A HORSE... YOU KNOW... HAVE A SEXUAL RELATIONSHIP, AND THEN THEY HAVE MULES, AND MULES DON'T HAVE CHILDREN, BUT THEY REALLY CAN HAVE SEX. THEY JUST CAN'T HAVE CHILDREN, BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE ACTUALLY THINK THAT THEY JUST DON'T HAVE SEX. WHICH ISN'T REALLY TRUE.

Right! Well, um... I think you... It's kind of weird the level of interpretation that you are reading into things, because... I mean, a mule in our country all it represents is a stupid animal. They are considered stupid and that's the allusion that was being used in that case. And it's very much a play on a traditional song called The Two Magicians about someone who's trying to escape someone, and they keep changing their form in order to escape them. But the other thing keeps changing its form. And that's actually what the whole song is about someone who is running away from something they don't want to face, but wherever they go, the thing will follow them. Basically, you can't run away from things you've got to confront things. And it's using the person as the imagery of a house, where they won't let anyone in, they lock all the doors and windows, and put a guard on the front door. But I think the essence of the song is about someone trying to run away from things they don't like and not being able to escape because you can't.

BUT IF THE SYMBOL OF MULES IS JUST STUPIDITY, AT THE END, THEN IT WOULD SEEM LIKE IT WOULD BE A NEGATIVE ENDING, AND IT JUST SORT OF SEEMS TO ME, MOST OF YOUR SONGS...A LOT OF THEM...END ON UP NOTES. AND IT SORT OF SEEMED LIKE IT WAS A POSITIVE NOTE AT THE END.

Yes, I think the mule is that kind of... the stupid confrontation... I mean, there's not really that much to read into it. It was the idea of playing around with changing shape, and the mule imagery was something I liked inordinately. The whole thing of this wild, stupid, mad creature just turning around and going, you know, "Eeyore! Eeyore!" [KATE MAKES CONVINCING EEYORE SOUNDS.] I don't know if you saw Pinocchio, but there's an incredibly heavy scene in there, where one of the little boys turns into a donkey a mule. And it's very heavy stuff.

I HAVEN'T SEEN THAT SINCE ABOUT SIX, BUT I THINK I REMEMBER THAT...IT'S A STRONG IMAGE.

Well, maybe you should see it again. It's a good film. (1985, Love-Hounds)

* DO YOU HAVE A FAVORITE KATE BUSH SONG?

PADDY: For me. Yes, yes...it's "Get Out Of My House", really, was my favorite track. I think if Alfred Hitchcock ever made hit singles [LAUGHTER FROM AUDIENCE]... And I love it, I love the energy that it deals with. It's fantastic. And Paul Hardiman's vocals on the very beginning of it I think are, to me, one of the most fantastic things thats ever been recorded. I used to go into fits of extascy when we listened to the multi-track tapes of that and those opening "Eoyores"... I love that track. (1985, Kate Bush Con. Paddy and Jay Interview)

THE TWA MAGICIANS

KATE: "And it's very much a play on a traditional song called The Two Magicians about someone who's trying to escape someone, and they keep changing their form in order to escape them."

The Twa (read Two) Magicians is an old English (and Irish and Scottish and just about every country in Europe, too) ballad in which a young maiden is wooed by a young man. In the original the girl threatens to change form (in some versions the boy does all the hypothesizing), from human to animal or vegetable. The boy always responds by promising to takethe form of a compatible or superior animal or vegetable.

Kate merely borrowed the general idea. Her specific images of bird-to-wind, the "song's hit," and the mules are all unprecedented, however, at least to judge from the dozen or more versions of the original that IED has come across recently. Musically, there's no connection, either, as far as this listener can tell.

Following is a transcription of the lyrics to an old Irish version of The Twa Magicians. Actually, with all the variants all over Europe, its English and Irish versions are not the earliest. The following version is the one that Kate probably learned as a child, since it is the work of A. L. "Burt" Lloyd, one of the fathers of the English and Irish folkmusic revival of our century, and a great favourite of Kate's. IED transcribed as well as he could from the recording of the song by Martin Carthy (the album, which also includes an a cappella rendition of "The Handsome Cabin Boy", is called Martin Carthy with Dave Swarbrick , on Topic, 12 TS 340 -- 1977).

The Twa Magicians

A lady sits in her own front door
As straight as a willow wand,
And by there come a lusty smith
With a hammer in his hand, and he said