Kate & Happy & Tori (oh my!)

[katefans@chinet.chi.il.us (Chris n Vickie)]

   This ended up being longer than I thought it would be. My apologies
   to the mailing list folks. 

Vickie here. We've been off-line for quite a while but now we're back
and I'm slowly trying to catch up. We spoke to Peter Fitzgerald-Morris
last week and there's no news, except for what has already been posted
here (the "Hello Earth" usage, etc.) so there are no tidbits to pass on.

Greg already posted about MST3k and the Kate-mention. We couldn't believe
it...it's the 2nd time (that we know about) Kate has been mentioned on the
show! 

I don't know about Katemas yet. We probably will have one, but don't have
have details yet. Would the fellow from Indianapolis, if you're reading 
this, be interested in coming to Chicago? Would you bring Lisa Germano
with you? :-)

I want to, once again, thank rec.music.gaffa/Love-Hounds for being there
and inspiring the birth of Ecto. Ectophiles are celebrating Ecto's first
birthday and, through the magic of moral support, excellent banking rela-
tionships and good timing, Happy gave us a wonderful birthday present:

The release of her 1st 4 albums on CD, complete with changed cover art,
complete lyrics, bonus tracks, re-mixes and, to top it off...on all 4 CDs
she thanked Ectophiles!

I never thought I'd see the day. Wow!


The following is something I wrote before our hard drive went bye-bye and
I never got a chance to post it. It's kind of out-dated now, but I'll tack 
on current thoughts. I realize it's very silly to throw my 2 cents 
in over 2 months after the original thread...oh well. Still, it's a good
example of how someone (me) can change their minds about something after 
an enlightening experience. Current comments by me are in [brackets].

I've tried to shorten this up by deleting some of the original material.
Basically, it all started when I grumbled about Tori's Atlantic publicity
machine. 

===========================================================================
Richard wrote:

> Some have drawn comparisons between the recent Tori Amos
> buzz and the Happy Rhodes push of days gone by.  I think the
> differences are obvious but if anyone who cares doesn't see
> them, drop me a line and we'll discuss them.

I'll discuss them (don't worry, flames from me are a thing of the past.)

There are big differences, the main one being that Happy doesn't have
the good fortune of having a large, international, very supportive
record company behind her.  With Tori, her videos are being shown on 
MTV and VH1; magazines all over the world are reviewing the album and
writing interviews about her; and she's getting major airplay all over
the country and all over the world.  I have a friend who works for Tori's
managment company and he said that it's really only just begun.  They
fully expect Tori's album to go gold in the US and it very well could
go platinum.  We'll be seeing a lot more of Tori Amos in the future.

 [Since I wrote this, Tori has been on David Letterman, Dennis Miller,
 and will be featured on "In Concert" next week. If left on my own, I
 wouldn't have bothered to record them. Luckily, Chris was a BIG fan and
 we did record them. Now, I'd kick myself if I didn't have them.]

*Good*, I say, and good for her. 

Happy, on the other hand, has only a grass-roots following and no
record company to back her up.  Last year, when _Warpaint_ came out,
the *ONLY* way any one could hear of her was through Love-Hounds and
rec.music.gaffa.  Any reviews written, and articles written, any airplay
she received/s, came/comes through a small group of people working hard to
send CDs and cassettes out, pleading for them to be listened to.  It's 
still that way.  It will probably be that way for quite some time to come.

 [Fans from the net inspired her to re-release her 1st4 on CD. That's
 certainly grass-roots fandom at it's finest (and most productive.)]

The "Publicity Machines" of the 2 artists cannot be compared in any way,
shape or form, except when it comes to people talking about them on rec.
music.gaffa.  And still, there's a big difference.  When people talk about
Tori here, nearly anyone who has their interest heightened can go into 
a record store and find _LE_, unless, of course, it's sold out.  When
_Warpaint_ came out, the *ONLY* way you could get it, for months afterward,
was by mail-order.  She has limited distribution now, but it's very limited,
and again, it came through a grass-roots level, not through Atlantic's
banking service and clout. 

 [Atlantic isn't as on-the-ball as I thought. A couple of weeks ago I went
 record shopping with my son. 3 stores we went to didn't have any Tori at
 all. One was a chain (Sound Warehouse) that had cards made out for all
 the artists they carry, and there wasn't one for Tori. It made me mad,
 whereas a few weeks ago I wouldn't have cared.]

I do *not* begrudge Tori her good fortune, honestly. I just wanted to
point out that grass-roots promotion is a lot different from major
label promotion. 

This discussion has nothing to do with the music of each artist, and
it shouldn't be a factor.  Some people like Tori, some like Happy,
some like both and some like neither.  Apples and Oranges.

My essay on Tori's publicity machine had less to do with her than with the
fact that excellent albums by excellent female artists are ignored, or
glossed over all the time.

I wasn't talking about Happy, because, though of course she's one of my
favorite female artists, she doesn't have the clout of a large record
company (though what she has accomplished on her own is nothing short of
amazing.)  I was talking about woman like Sarah McLachlan, Toni Childs,
Jane Siberry, Kirsty MacColl and yes, Kate Bush, who *do* have major record
companies behind them that aren't/haven't been  pushing them like Altantic 
is pushing Tori.

  [I still feel this way, but I realize now that, but for the grace of
  people at Atlantic who _care_, Tori could continue to be as obscure as 
  some of these women. And then I'd be grumbling about that!]

Please, know this:

I am GLAD that an interesting, intelligent female artist is finally 
being recognized on a grand scale.

Also, I have *absolutely* *no* problems with Tori being discussed in
rec.music.gaffa/Love-Hounds. Or Ecto, where she's all over the place.

  [Of course, the Tori mailing list is up and running now and we've
  subscribed. Tori-talk here has died down, and I hope I don't cause
  a commotion with this post. It originated here, so I'm keeping it
  here.]

> And while I would certainly say that Kate deserves much more
> attention than any other artist, I would disagree that she has
> only received a fraction of the attention of Tori Amos.  In fact,
> I would say that the most limiting factor in Kate's exposure
> these days has been her own unwillingness to actively promote
> herself, particularly in the states. 

You are so right.  I too wish that Kate took more interest in promoting
her work here in the US, and in other countries.  I accept Kate as she is,
but sometimes she can be a frustrating artist to be interested in. No
matter, she'll always be my favorite.

> I think MTV would jump at the chance to have Kate perform live as Tori 
> did for MTV.

Maybe.  They might have let Kate do an MTV Unplugged, at least.

> Vickie writes:
>> I pulled out my LP copy of Tori's first album (_Y Kant Tori Read_) and
>> made a dub of it (Melissa, it's for you and Richard, send me your
>> address and I'll get it in the mail to you) and while I was writing

> That's very nice of you.  We set out the dragnet for a copy of
> this and since it appears to be out of print we'll gladly accept
> a dub for now (unless you can be talked out of the original :-)).

Unfortunately the album got warped.  It was the last album in my "W-X-Y-Z"
LP box and the other albums leaned up against it.  I wouldn't give it
away.  The dub I offer you sounds terrible (no, not talking about the 
album, just the sound quality) because the needle cartridge rubs up 
against the album at many points during playing. 

 [I know now that you (Richard and Melissa) have found a CD copy.]
 
> It's worth noting that while you don't care for this first
> album, I suspect Missy and my tastes extend quite a bit further
> into the hard, sharp end of the musical spectrum than yours. 

I realize that.  I'll admit that the "Rock" aspect of the music
isn't to my liking.

> Interestingly, a search of the archives reveals two widely
> ignored highly positive reviews of the first LP.  Kudos to Ken
crash.cts.com, both of
> whom spotted the considerable talents of Tori Amos long before
> the current "buzz" took off.

I will also admit that there are parts of the album that point toward
the Tori we all know and love.  Here and there, there are flashes of
things I admire (really, those little bits are why I even kept the LP
all this time, even though I sold a *bunch* of albums when we moved to
Chicago) but on the whole though, I don't like it.  Again, this means 
nothing when it comes to _Little Earthquakes_, which is a complete turn-
around for Tori, musically and lyrically, and which I think is great.

 [Now that I'm a "real" Tori fan (as opposed to a "Some-of-the-_LE_-songs-
 are-great-but-give-me-a-BREAK" fan) I hear the first album in a different
 way. There are still production/arrangements I despise, which makes me
 want to hear these songs re-recorded, because, for the most part, the
 songs are solid. The lyrics are sometimes shaky, and her voice isn't
 quite as powerful on some songs, but there are many more "Tori-moments"
 there than I thought. Believe it or not, even though there are songs I
 still cringe at, *I* would also like to find YKTR on CD, or at least an
 un-warped LP copy. I never thought I'd say that!]

Totally current now...

What changed my mind about Tori? Simple. I saw her in concert. Any other
comments will go to the Tori list.

ps, I noticed some of the above was weirded out as I was sending it. Sorry.

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Vickie                                   "My ears are lucky to hear
katefans@chinet.chi.il.us                     these glorious songs" HTR
                              _________
                             |_  _ | _   The Happy Rhodes mailing list
"Imagination sets in, then   |__|_ ||_|  ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu
 all the voices begin" KB                Jessica Dempski-Ecto Goddess Lady
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