BucKeT of Bloody Flag Songs...

[nrc@cbema.att.com (Neal R Caldwell, Ii)]

Vickie <katefans@world.std.com> writes:
> Jorn writes:
> 
> > 2-- Kate definitely was into Gurdjieff, and there's no onus there--
> 
> And I disagreed. Here's why.

Thank you for clearing that up beyond all reasonable doubt.

> Richard writes:
> 
> > Lots of wonderful stuff. Deleted because I fell on the floor laughing
>   and accidently hit the "delete" key.

I hope that no harm was done.  Maybe you could get Kate to finally go
public on this Moon Cheese conneKTion at the KonvenTion. :-)

> Re: The National Anthem
> Richard writes:
> 
> > I agree that Sinead should be able to do as she pleases (even if she
> > is starting to strike me as a bit of a whiner) but I don't feel that
> > the Anthem is either stinky or stupid.  I  guess it is fairly old.  You
> > can think whatever you like but I hope that you're not taking your
>                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > anger at the people who are misusing our national symbols by
>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > denigrating the symbols themselves.
> 
> Huh?  Where'd you get the idea that I was angry at anyone who is "misusing
> our national symbols?" Misuse them if you feel like it, I say.

Um.  I seem to have lost all capacity to clearly express myself just
prior to typing that sentence.  The resulting misunderstanding is
entirely my fault.  What I meant was that I hope that your low opinion
of our national symbols, specifically The Star Spangled Banner, is not 
a result of your anger at those who are misusing those symbols.  

When I say "misusing our national symbols" I don't mean burning them or 
insulting them, I mean holding up these mere symbols of much higher
ideals and values as icons in and of themselves - even to the point
infringing on the ideals that they are supposed to represent.  To me a
law against flag burning is a misuse of the flag - not flag burning.

> I have NO problem with people who misuse or revere
> national symbols, as long as they don't tell me I HAVE to do one or the
> other. I respect your feeling that the Anthem is neither stinky nor stupid.
> Really I do, but I also respect my feeling that it is both.

I agree completely, Vickie.  But it makes me sad that some people have
become so convinced that all violence in our history is something to be
ashamed of that any mention of it is bad.  Object to the anthem because 
you feel it's war-like if you please, but don't forget that men fought 
and died so that you could say whatever you like about that anthem - and 
anything else.

> There are three major fan "outlets" in the world:
> 
> The KBC
> Homeground
> Love-Hounds

Does anyone know what the readership of the first two is?  I notice
that the last ratings report estimates that 13,000 people read
Love-Hounds.  I've heard that these ratings are notoriously high but
any way you slice it that's a lot of Love-Hounds.

> to any of the fan outlets. I'd be more concerned and serious about this
> if the convention were to be held in a tiny, limited capacity hall. The
> venue chosen holds 2000 though, so lets not get excited about being denied
> a seat OK?

Why do I imagine that this 2000 seat hall could seem pretty small by
the time November rolls around?


----

Jem < carrollj%alcban@krdc.int.alcan.ca > writes:
> definately the only thing to do.
> anthem is viewed outside of the US. It is seen (by myself and people that I
> know) to be an aggressive and threatening thing. Again, mostly because of
> ignorance, the US is in general seen as an aggg.

That seems like a pretty strange interpretation of a song about
surviving a valiant defensive struggle against a foreign aggressor.
I have to suspect that many people here and abroad hear our national
anthem as: hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm and the rockets' red glare,
the bombs bursting in air hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm.

> country. If you ask some people over here to summarise the US, the major
> images are McCarthyism, KKK, Dallas, and 'The Presidents Brain is Missing'.
> Still, thats ignorance for you. I used to think that, until I started

I can't wait until they see Twin Peaks.

----

Carl Hansen <carl@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> writes:

> Point is, I don't think TSSB reflects the concerns, desires etc.  of
> most people in the US.  Hope not anyway.

At a time when a black man may be jailed for selling a record album
by an all white jury and an art museum is on trial for obscenity, I'd 
say that the notion of struggling to preserve our freedom is very 
appropriate.  It is a reminder that we must continue fight if this is 
to remain, or perhaps become once again, the land of the free.


"Don't drive too slowly."                 Richard Caldwell
                                          AT&T Network Systems
                                          att!cbnews!nrc
                                          nrc@cbnews.att.com