12/30/80 Gambaccini interview

[IED0DXM%OAC.UCLA.EDU@mitvma.mit.edu]

 To: Love-Hounds
 From: Andrew Marvick (IED)
 Subject: 12/30/80 Gambaccini interview

Hi, Love-Hounds! Remember me? (Wish you didn't?)
     Now that we seem to be back, here's the first of several
recent IED transcriptions for your reading pleasure. IED
hopes 440 lines isn't too big a block for anyone's mailbox.
Only a small minority of you received copies of these interviews
during Love-Hounds's hiatus, so these postings are aimed at bringing
everyone back up to date.
     Speaking of which, unfortunately there has still been no news
(that IED is aware of) about KBVI. The only interesting developments
come from our much-appreciated UK correspondent Neil Calton, whose
news report of today will, we all hope, soon be followed by a summary
of Kate's television debut with the Soloists of the Radio Sofia Women's
Choir. Thanks again, Neil.

-- Andrew Marvick

                *                       *                        *

    The first Paul Gambaccini radio programme, December 30, 1980

     <At the end of 1980 Paul Gambaccini, host of a BBC Radio
1 music programme, invited Kate Bush to join him for two programmes,
on which she would have complete discretion as to the music playlist.
For the first programme, broadcast on December 30 and transcribed here,
Kate provided a selection of traditional and "classical"
recordings which would not ordinarily have been played on radio at
all. For the second day's programme her choice included records
which might be called more "popular", although most of these
recordings are rarely if ever heard on radio either. During the
programmes Kate's mood was noticeably upbeat and relaxed, and
she has said afterwards that she greatly enjoyed the chance to
introduce some of her own favourites to a large audience. The
interviews have been transcribed directly from a tape recording of
the programmes, by Andrew Marvick.>

     The winner of the British Rock and Pop awards,
Female Vocalist of Year awards for the past couple of years, Kate
Bush. Hello, Kate.
     "Hi."
     Now we've invited you to pick your favourite records, and
we didn't know, when we did so, what kind of records you would
like--if it would be a selection of Top Forty hits, or if you liked
some classical music, or perhaps, uh, females singing in high voices.
We had no idea whatsoever. And you've come up with a list
which is as varied as any I've ever seen on Radio
One--<laughter from Kate>--and it reminds me of some of the
free-form radio stations that used to exist in the United States
<Gambaccini is American, though fully "Anglicised".>,
so we're going to have an exciting time.
     "That's interesting. Yeah, I bet you didn't know
what you were letting yourselves in for."
     We'll give an example straight away. This one is from Alan
Stivell, and it's called _The_Kinead_. Now this is one that
I have not heard before.
     "Well, this is a really beautiful track, and
Alan Stivell, um, he's a, a Breton, and from the age of four,
as far as we know, he was a, a master harpist, playing the Celtic harp.
Um, his father was a master at it, and that's obviously why he
learnt so young. Um, as he got older he decided that all the kids
in Breton were getting into contemporary music, and didn't
realise what beautiful traditional music they had in their own
country. So what he wanted to do was present the traditional
music in a form that they would love and understand because he
felt that it was being forgotten. And it really is beautiful.
And it's nice because not only is it the traditional music
but he's mixing it with rock. and, uh, as far as I'm
concerned this track is a tear-jerker, it's so beautiful."
     From his album _From_Celtic_Roots_, here's Alan Stivell.
     <Part of _The_Kinead_ is played.>
     _The_Kinead_, by Alan Stivell. Kate, are you particularly
interested in Celtic music, or here are you just drawn to this artist?
     "I think I'm probably drawn to this artist, because
it is, uh, quite like the music that I was brought up on, which
was traditional English-Irish music."
     When you say you were brought up on it, you mean within the
family?
     "Within the family, yes, obviously there wasn't
live music happening so much, um, but records. And so that's
all you need as a kid, I think if your environment is there. Uh, that's
what happened for me: it was such a natural thing that it seemed, um,
wrong _not_ to be singing or playing music. Which is very good, I think,
especially for children, because it's so good for the
imagination."
     Your two brothers were musicians.
     "Yes, ah, and they loved music; they still do."
     And what kinds of records would they play at home, that you
would hear?
     "Well in fact, one...the next one that we're going
to hear is a very good example. It's a sea chanty. And, uh,
it's by A. L. Lloyd and Ewan MacColl. We know him as Burt
Lloyd. And, uh, he is still one of my favourite singers. He's
got the most remarkable voice. When he sings it's like he's
telling you a dirty joke, 'cause there's this really wicked
glint in his voice, it's almost like you can see his eyes. And
he's now...He must be in his seventies, but he's had the
most tremendous influence on people. Um, in the revival of, uh,
folk music in the Sixties he was really the main figure. He's
a great collector of songs. And so he's brought a lot of
unknown songs back into people's, um...hearing distance.
     "And this one song that we're going to hear is called Doo Me Ah Ma
Ding. Um, a friend of mine calls it
Do You Have a Dinghy That Will Do Me For the Day?
And it's really beautiful, and it's one of the first songs
that I ever learnt to sing."
     <The song is played.>
     _Doo_Me_A_Ma_Ding_ by A. L. Lloyd and Ewan MacColl. Ewan MacColl may
be known to listeners of this programme, because not only was he a famous
singer but he wrote _The_First_Time_Ever_I_Saw_Your_Face_, which was
made famous by Roberta Flack--
     "Yeah."
     --and also he's the father of Kirsty MacColl.
     But as you say, Kate Bush, one of the records you first
learned to sing.
     "Yes, indeed."
     Uh, you say that your father and your brothers were keen on
music, played records in the home. Have you had a family Christmas
this year?
     "Yes, yes. I think we, ah, normally take that time to
get together. I think most families do, because it's one of
the few times of the year when there is a gap. And, um, it's
really good, to, to see your friends and people. I think you forget
to take enough notice of them during the year, so it's a time
to say hi, I, I love you."
     I'm wondering if this next composer was one that you were
introduced to by your family, and this of course is Delius. And
you've written a song about him on your _Never_For_Ever_
album. You are a fan of several of his pieces.
     "Yes. Um, Delius was really introduced to me by Ken
Russell, um, on television. Um, I think people have probably
heard about, um _Song_of_Summer_ that was
shown--a beautiful piece of film, about Delius's later life."
     How old were you when you saw that?
     "I must have been about ten. But the imagery was just
so beautiful, you just don't forget it. It's the most
incredible film. And if I could make a plea, um, I really wish
the BBC could show it again. There are so many people that could
benefit greatly from seeing it.
     "The piece that we're going to play next is called
_Song_to_be_Sung_of_a_Summer's_Night_on_the_Water_.
Um, this is a line I used, in fact, in the song on the album. And, uh,
there's a quote from Delius as to his favourite retreat, that
he imagined, and I thought it would tie in rather nicely, going
into the music. Um, he says: 'White butterflies flitting from
petal to petal, and golden brown bees murmuring in the warm, quivering
summer air. Beneath the shade of the old trees flows a quiet river
with water-lilies, and in a boat, almost hidden, two people. A thrush
is singing in the distance.'"
     <Part of _Song_to_be_Sung_of_a_Summer's_Night_on_the_Water_,
from a suite of three songs for _a_cappella_ choir, is played.>
     An extract from _Song_to_be_Sung_of_a_Summer_Night_
by Delius. Kate, we know that, uh, many devotees of a particular
form of music are intolerant of others. In the early days of
rock'n'roll, for example, classical music-buffs would
condemn rock. And unfortunately some rock fans are intolerant
of classical music. Have any of your fans questioned the fact that
you wrote a track about Delius?
     "Not one. Um, I think the thing about music is that it
isn't something that should be labeled; and I think it's
the human element that labels it. Music, um, should be all-embracing.
There should be no snobbery, because music is one entity. It's
not lots of different things. But no, I've not found that
from any of my fans, I think they're all extremely openminded
people who appreciate music as one thing. Not, uh, sectionalised
devotees, yeah."
     Our next track is from a film--and a film I've
seen--called _Meetings_With_Remarkable_Men,
a film made by Peter Brook. And it was the story of the man
Gurdjieff, who has followers, and, uh, are you one of them?
     "Um, I'm not actually a follower, but I'm a great
admirer of a lot that the man said. And I think indeed Peter must be
too, because the film, as you know, is very beautiful. It's a
quite exceptional film because of the visuals. And it is a _journey_.
He takes you on the journey of part of this man's life. And, uh,
there's a beautiful scene in it which is a competition, where
there are, ah, about half a dozen men seated in this valley. And
the scene is very sort of sandy, and the sun is bursting down on
them. And the competition is for whoever can make the magical valley
vibrate with a particular frequency of music. And so one by one they
all try to make the, uh, rocks vibrate, and create the magic. And
not until we get to the last one does something magical happen. It's
called _The_Contest_of_the_Ashoks_."
     <The piece, for a kind of ethnic flute and solo male
voice, is played. This flows into some joyous western music for
orchestra, and fades out.>
     And the people start to celebrate because the man has indeed
made the valley vibrate. Uh, is there such an actual valley?
     "Um, I'm not sure, but I presume so. Um, I daresay
in the film they just set it up."
     Right. That's one of my favourite scenes from the film.
     "But, I think it is incredible: the fact that
that's just a human voice. Um, I think we so often underestimate
it as an instrument. Um, perhaps this is one of the points I'm
trying to prove today."
     Maybe that's the reason that that particular track appeals
to you.
     "Yes, I think it is, yes. And also, remembering the magic
of the visuals with that."
     Well here's one that is not from a film. And it's called _And_
_Spake_Sadrak_. And it's from a selection from _Piper's_Rock_. What is
piper's rock?
     "Well, _Piper's_Rock_ is just the
name of an album. But what's interesting about it
is that it's an album full of Uillean piping, which are Irish
pipes--very different from Scottish pipes, um, etcetera. They're
played...they're pumped with the elbow: um, the bellows are under
the elbow. And there's a selection of pipes on the
bag. And it's played across the lap. And normally, um, this is
something which is played by older people. It's a traditional
Irish instrument and normally years and years are spent before they
become experts. And what's interesting about this album is
that they're all very young people. And one of them is a female
piper, which is extremely unusual. And they're only about seventeen
or eighteen years old. And they're playing the traditional music
with a very new, fresh spirit, which is lovely."
     _And_Spake_Sadrak_.
     <The piece, for one (or two?) sets of Uillean pipes, is
played.>
     This is Radio One, and our special guest until 6:30 this
evening is Kate Bush, who tonight is playing for us some of the
traditional music that has influenced her and that she has enjoyed
during her lifetime; and tomorrow evening during the same time-slot
between 5:45 and 6:30 we'll be playing some of the more popular
material that Kate has enjoyed during her...short lifetime, I mean,
so far, and we've got a lot more loving of music to come.
     I'm wondering who it was that introduced pop music into
your family?
     "Who it was? I suppose it was probably the radio, um, as
it is with most people. Um, I think, uh, as I got older, it was
much more me getting into my own music. Obviously when you're
very young you're listening to the music that is supplied to
you. And I think the radio was, uh, probably my main influence
getting into new music. And also a large selection of forty-fives
that my brothers had, that I used to plow through on wet rainy
afternoons and find these records that I'd never heard before,
people that I'd never heard before. And also it was good because
it meant I could catch up on years that I'd not been around
in...which is very useful indeed!"
     About a month ago I asked you to choose your favourite
single forty-five RPM record, and I'll be very anxiously
awaiting your answer. I don't know if you've narrowed
it down yet. <Laughter from Kate.> This next selection
that we're going to play. It doesn't appear in the BBC
library. It's a really off-the-wall selection and I love it.
What is it?
     "Well, the thing is, I don't know anyone that actually
knows what it is. Um, it was given to me by a friend years ago, a
man whose stories that, uh...Every place he travels to (he travels
around the world), he collects a seed from every country he's
been to, and he says that one day, when he gets a house and a garden,
he' going to plant each of these seeds and he'll have a
tree from every country in the world in his garden. Now this is
the man that gave me this tape. And, it's a very strange tape:
most of the music on it is Voodoo, and it's very
heavy."
     Is it in the English language?
     "Some of it is, but some of it isn't.
And it seems to be a compilation tape.
And right in the middle of all these Voodoo tracks is this one
track, and it seems like two completely different bits of music
put together. One is a morning prayer that's being sung by
a man from a temple. And the other is a _Kyrie_Eleison_
sung by a choir of nuns. Now who's put them together I don't
know, but it's a very strange combination. At points the chords
really clash unconventionally, and then resolve themselves
beautifully."
     Well let's see if this mixture appeals to us as much
as it does to you.
     <A portion of the recording is played.>
     One of the most historic records in pop music is one by
the Drifters, called _There_Goes_My_Baby_. It was the
first rhythm-and-blues song to use strings. And the
dissonance at times, radio listeners thought they were listening
to two different songs being played together. And that is precisely
what we have here--
     "Yes, I think so."
     --the Kyrie Eleison, and this Voodoo chant, which I found
haunting. <Gambaccini has misunderstood this to be a Voodoo
chant; in fact, the man singing, as Kate put it, "from a
temple", is clearly vocalising a Moslem morning or evening prayer, such
as those which priests cry from minarets in Middle-Eastern
temples. Kate very tentatively corrects him:>
     "It...it's incredible, yes. It...There isn't
actually a Voodoo chant...in...in this song. Um, what I found
very interesting is, again, the way he's using
his voice like an instrument, the way he's projecting out of
his mouth. Now, I presume that it's the prayer that he would
sing from his temple as the sun's coming up in the morning.
Um, and something I also find very interesting is the language
thing. Although we say that music is international, and, um,
you know, words don't  matter, when was the last time
in our charts we...we had a song with people singing in
another language--other than English?"
     Plastic Bertrand, _Ca_Plane_pour_moi_. <Kate laughs.> That
was the last Top Ten in a foreign language, I believe.
     "It doesn't happen much, though."
     No.
     "And, uh, I think what is interesting: As soon as
you have someone singing in a different language, it automatically
becomes an instrument, instead of a voice, because you can no
longer relate to what they're singing about. And, uh, I
find this very interesting. And it would be nice if we had more
songs, um, that were sung in other languages."
     This next one is by a pair we've heard before, so obviously
A. L. "Burt" Lloyd and Ewan MacColl were real favourites
in your home.
     "Yes, they were. I think for me they really sum up a lot
about traditional music. Um, as you've told them a mine of
information about Ewan MacColl, I can't really say about him,
but I think they do represent a lot--and especially, um, Lloyd's
voice. And the next song we're playing...For me it is an
absolutely classic story--the fact that they can fit in such
a beautiful story, as well as such a beautiful tune."
    It's called _The_Handsome_Cabin_Boy_.
     <Lloyd's version of the song, with two verses included
which Kate omitted from her own later recording and several others
missing which she would later include, is played.>
     Radio One, with Kate Bush's favourite music until
6:30, and after the news, _The_Talkabout_Programme_.
     And now, one of my favourites, oh yes, Kate and Anna McGarrigle.
Now this is a, a duet, and it's from their first album together,
isn't it?
     "Yes, as far as I know. I think they're lovely. I
really do, I think they're great. And their energy is very
positive and very pure. And, uh, we saw them live a couple of years
ago, and that was just the same: very honest, and very simple.
And, um, it was beautiful. And, uh, this again is in a foreign
language. We think it's in Old French; and Anna was in on
the writing of this, and I just think it's a lovely track."
     Dare I pronounce this one, or are you gonna give it a go?
     "Well, 'ere we go! _Complainte_pour_Sainte_Catherine_."
     <Part of the song, actually sung in modern French with a heavy
Canadian accent, is played.>
     From a marvellous eponymous album, _Kate_and_Anna_McGarrigle_.
Kate, has there ever been an Anna with which you wished you could
harmonise?
     "Um, not really, I must admit. Uh, I find that working
with myself is much...It's interesting because I can tell
myself off and get very annoyed with it. Or I'd use a choir.
Or I'd use male voices, I think, because, um, I'd rather
put myself with myself or with something very different, rather
than with another female. That's just the way I feel about
working at the moment. <Recently (some eight years after
the date of this interview) Kate has finally done some performing
with other female singers, by recording two tracks with the Bulgarian
vocal ensemble Trio Bulgarka, for her sixth album, released in 1989.>
But, um, working with other people on any level is just so incredible,
because as soon as you have another person there, you have something
to bounce of, you...you haven't got your own criticisms and
uh, ideals bouncing around in there."
     And this is why you've enjoyed working with Peter Gabriel,
even if only on backing vocals for his song.
     "Loveley! Uh, that's a really good experience. What's
nice about that is being able to walk into someone else's studio
and not have the responsibilty of the sounds, and everything. You
just go in and sing and have a really great time. And
for me that was a great honour to be on that album, because the
music is so good."
     It's certainly one of my ten favourite albums of the year.
     Now we move on to an artist not normally heard on Radio One:
the choir of Kings College Chapel, Cambridge. Have you ever been to this
chapel?
     "No, I haven't, no. But they sing like angels. And
this particular piece is remarkable."
     <An excerpt is played.>
     From the _Miserere_ by Allegri, the choir of Kings College Chapel,
in Cambridge. You loved the voice of that young boy.
     "I think, a-anyone that heard that would. It's interesting:
every time I've played that in my room, the last few weeks when
I've been getting this together, the room would go completely
silent every time that boy starts singing. Just complete silence.
And then when he's finished his notes everyone says 'Oh-h!
Again!' I think it is stunning."
     The choir of Kings College Chapel, Cambridge. Have you ever
wished you'd gone to University?
     "No, never."
     And you didn't.
     "No."
     You left school at sixteen and never, never looked back.
     "Uh, I must have been about seventeen when I left, but..."
     So much for the press release.
     "<Laughs> Yeah."
     O.K., let's go on now to another song which sounds either
traditional or child-oriented, because it's called _Oh_Willow_Waley_.
     "Well this track, um, this is really a novelty thing
for me. There was a film called _The_Innocents_,
which I based a song on, on the new album--"
     Which one?
     "Um, it's called _The_Infant_Kiss_. But it's a
remarkable film, very spooky. It's a Fifties
English film, black-and-white, and it's about the possession
of two children who this governess goes to stay with. And the whole
film is very strange. She keeps seeing things, hearing things. Um, and
she can't really work out if she's going mad or whether there
is something very strange happening. And although this is never
actually sung in the film, um, the theme music is from the film
and it's sung by a lady called Ida Cameron. And she's got
a beautiful voice, she sounds just like a little girl, and it's
very haunting."
     Let's hear it then, or at least part of it.
     <An excerpt of this recording is played.>
     From the film _The_Innocents_, _Oh_Willow_Waley_.
And as you say, it's the one that inspired you to write _The_Infant_
_Kiss_. Very good, solid concept there about the possibilities of
arousal and fear coming from the kiss from an infant. <Gambaccini is here
apparently discussing Kate's song, but Kate either doesn't realise this
or doesn't wish to discuss it:>
     "Yes. And I do think her voice is extraordinary."
     We move on now to someplace we've already been, in a
sense, and that's Ireland.
     "Yes! Now this is from the Bothy Band, and um...I think
the thing about Irish music is that it's starting to break up,
but there are only certain people that are becoming popular, like
The Chieftains. And although they're really brilliant, there's
such a wealth of Irish music and musicians in Ireland. Now one
particular fiddle-player called Kevin Burke, who happens to be
in the Bothy Band, was, again, on my album. He was on _Violin_--
he was the mad fiddler. He's the most fantastic musician. He's
really a lovely guy, too. And this track...I mean heavy metal--nothing!
Just listen to this. It gets so funky, it's incredible--"
     What's it called?
     "--and it's so natural. It's called, um, _Farewell_to_Erin_."
     <Part of this track is played.>
     _Farewell_to_Erin_, by the Bothy Band, and it's farewell from Kate
Bush and Paul Gambaccini. Until tomorrow night. Kate, will you
come back and join us and play your favourite popular songs?
     "I'd love to!"
     And will you include songs by Steely Dan, John Lennon,
Frank Zappa and Rolf Harris?
     "Well, I might!"
     Well, let's hold you to that promise. Telepathy in
store, after the 6:30 news.

               *                     *                    *