Stand down Marvick, stand down pleeeeaase, stand down Mar-vick ...

[Greg Earle <smeagol!earle@elroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov>]

>Actually, IED might even be willing to agree that Skylarking
>is one of the best LPs "of the year." The obvious point to make
>is that this isn't saying much, since there were NO very good LPs made
>in 1986. Think of the kind of mark in history an LP like Sgt. Pepper's
>made; surely you are capable of seeing that 1986 produced no such record.

Jesus Christ, Andrew, if you want to make an idiot of yourself in this
forum, that's your damn business; but one can only countenance remarks
like this for so long.  Shit, I even wasted your supposed `Challenge' in
private mail; maybe I should have posted it instead.

First of all, everyone has their own idea of what a `very good LP' is;
for you to say `there were NO very good LPs made in 1986' not only shows
your ignorance of subjective subjects but also your tunnelvisioned view
of modern music (i.e., music is divided into Kate Bush and All Other
Heathen Scum).  A lot of other more reasonable people have pointed out
the farce in your reasoning, but you just won't face it.  You also ignore
the fact that for some people the `kind of mark in history an album makes'
is *personal*; I couldn't give two shits about how many copies `Sgt.  Pepper'
sold, or how many Hippie rock writers of the time hailed it as the messiah
of rock music, the LP that `makes people think of Rock in serious terms',
or whathaveyou, as far as *I'm* concerned (other opinions solicited - this
is a *personal* thing, remember) `Revolver' pisses all over `Sgt. Pepper'
and the rest of their LP's (it's the only one I can stand, sorry) and that's
all that matters to *me*.  `Revolver' made MORE of a `mark in history' for
*me* and that is once again a subjective thing for most people.

In the same vein - about `style', Paul Weller once wrote:  "I don't care
how many people try to tell me how great Picasso is.  Well I think he was
shite and a French Small Faces EP cover pisses all over any of his paintings."
Style, like musical taste, is a personal matter and you can't sit there and
tell everyone how wrong they are because they disagree with your definitions
and criteria for comparing record albums.  Sheesh.

>Why do you have to be reminded AGAIN that IED's challenge was to name an LP
>more sophisticated than "anything Kate has produced SINCE 1982"?  So far,
>nobody has been able to do that.
Hmm, guess you ignore your mail, I named at LEAST 5 right off the top of my
head, if I wanted to really waste my time I'd make a list when I'm at home ...
Two of them were even released in 1986!!

>>I began to see convergence in this paragraph:  sure, we can describe and
>>analyze.  But then you blow it in the last sentence -- one can't usefully
>>compare aesthetics.  In the quote, your first phrase contradicts your last.
>This is just simply not true. It is you who are still struggling --
>and with a very rudimentary distinction, IED might add. What IED
>said in the last sentence was that it was quite possible to
>make COMPARATIVE analyses between, say, two different pieces of
>music, providing one is comparing definite, quantifiable
>and recordable elements of the music. This is an obvious fact.
>Here's a hypothetical example (more than you've yet given): |>oug
>and IED are listening to Kate Bush's "Breathing" from
>the Never for Ever LP. |>oug says, "I love this studio-produced version,
>but I find it less moving than the version Kate performed live at the
>British Comic Relief shows." IED AGREES with Doug; but adds that THERE
>IS NO QUESTION that in terms of harmony, structural design and
>number of hidden messages the studio version is FAR MORE COMPLEX,
>and even FAR MORE SUCCESSFUL."

Hey, that's pretty good.  People shred your claim to be able to compare apples
and oranges, and you come back with a `proof' that is comparing the SAME piece
of music, performed by the SAME composer, with only a difference in the
mode of presentation used - this is like comparing two Granny Smith apples!!!
Comparing these two things is the ultimate Trivial Case in musical comparisons,
hardly a `proof' of your theory!

`Atomizer', `The Unacceptable Face Of Freedom', `Paint Your Wagon', etc.
all came out in 1986, and all of these made more of mark on *my* history
than a thousand `Sgt. Peppers' ...

I leave it to the other contributors to add other counterexamples, I'm sick
and tired of this BS ...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In Other News:
	The Assembled Weenies At NRL will be pleased to know that the latest
Thrasher (best music magazine in America?) has features on the Buttholes,
Adolescents (tho', still no one can get Rikk Agnew to talk), and the Pushead
column is all about Japanese Hardcore!!!  Yow, go to town, dudes!  Skate Rad!

Meanwhile, the current March "Freestylin'" has a picture of a skate on the
cover which is plastered with Factory stickers ... Rumors linking the board's
owner, "Freestylin'"'s Editor Andy Jenkins, with Andy Jenkins, bass player for 
Factory, have yet to be denied ...

Bob Krajewski [lmi-angel!rpk] mmentioned WAY back about the `new' Wire EP,
`Snakedrill'.  Well, L.A. record stores are getting lamer by the day and it
took me a month and a half to find it, in Encinitas of all places (down San
Diego way).  All I can add is that if you are a Wire fan at all this is a
*must* purchase.  Every other time in history a band has reformed it's 
invariably been for the Wrong Reasons or it Just Doesn't Work again.  Usually
releases from these new editions are cause for running to the bomb shelter.
Immense credit is due to these guys for blasting that theory; even on my
first listen the thing that struck me was It's Them, It's Really THEM, like
as in They'd-Never-Left all this time It's Them.  The whole Wire essence is
right there, right from the we-refuse-to-sound-like-anything-else to the
interplay between the instruments to That Voice.  Wow.  It's just fucking
amazing that they could pull this off, after 6 years apart.  If you listen
to the individual records (He Said, Gilbert & Lewis, Colin Newman's `Commercial
Suicide' etc.) which are decidedly non-Wire-esque, it's even more surprising.
Slot in between Chairs Missing and 154 and no one will blink an eyelash ...

Quotations from Chairman Albini:
	`Hey, how do you know when your roommate is a homosexual?'
	(Crowd) `How?'
	`When his dick tastes like SHIT'

[This from the Big Black video Bill Hsu mentioned - jeez, imagine seeing
Big Black in some little shithole in Chicago with hardly anyone there, 
and getting a batch of as-yet-unreleased `Atomizer' buried in your cranium.
Yow.  Also, they do a rave-up cover of the song `Rema Rema', by the ENGLISH
band of the same name (Rema Rema, who had Marco Pironi, later of much food
and Adam and the Ants, on guitar; also a future Wolfgang Press-er as well).
BTW, the Rema Rema `Wheel In the Roses' EP, one of the original 4AD releases way
back in 1980, was recently re-issued (has the original `Rema Rema' theme on it)
and is a great record (you'd never know it was 1980 and not 1986)]

Greg

P.S. New Lustmord is rad - gets better with each listen.