Re: Kate-echism I.x.13 (Blore's response to IED)

[nessus (Doug Alan)]

> From: seismo!hao!udenva!showard (Steve "Blore" Howard)

>> First of all, IED shares Kate's own opinion (which she has
>> expressed in very explicit terms) that her music is not
>> "over-produced" at all. In fact, the term "over-produced" is
>> foolish and meaningless.

> The term "over-produced," to me, indicates a piece of music which
> has had too much production done to it.  In other words, a piece
> that has would have sounded better with less production.

I agree that something can be over-produced, but I don't agree on the
subtleties of meaning in the term "over-produced".  For me, the
typical case of over-production usually occurs when production is used
to make something "slick", to smooth out rough edges, to make it bland
and lacking in detail.  A common way to do this traditionally has been
to add an orchestra or synth wash with little content for no good
reason.

On the other hand, production can be interesting all by itself.  It
can be used to add detail and interesting stuff.  Production can be
used to add rough edges, not just remove them.  If the studio is used
to add detail to a record, rather than to smooth it into slickness,
the album can't be "over-produced".  The result is not necessarily
great, but the flaw then is not in "over-production".

*The Dreaming* is NOT over-produced.  On *The Dreaming*, the studio is
the major instrument.  This is why *The Dreaming* is such an
important album.  With significantly less production, *The Dreaming*
wouldn't be *The Dreaming*.  The instrument of interest on *The
Dreaming* IS the studio.  The production here does not smooth out
rough edges, it adds them.  It adds detail and complexity.

The production on *The Dreaming* is better than on *Hounds of Love*.
The production on *HoL* also adds detail and complexity, but it also
is used for commercial slickness.  This slickness results in less
detail, and therefore, there being less of interest.  *HoL* also isn't
as good in terms of fidelity as *The Dreaming*.  HoL, in some places,
I also don't find as interesting musically.  HoL has more harmony and
less counterpoint than *The Dreaming*.  Counterpoint is better than
harmony.  Baroque music and Stravinsky are better than Classical music
for this reason.

> Non-Bush examples include Yes's 90125, any "light metal" (REO
> Speedwagon, Night Ranger, etc.) song that uses multi-tracking to
> make it sound like the background vocals are in harmony, Boston (in
> a big, big way--most of Boston's output is nothing BUT
> production--there's nothing underneath), etc.

By your own definition of "over-produced", Boston can't be
over-produced because if their output is nothing but production, then
it wouldn't be better with less production -- it would be nothing
without production.

>> Beyond that, Hounds of Love is OBVIOUSLY MORE painstakingly
>> produced than The Dreaming, NOT LESS SO!

Says who???

> First of all, I never said that complexity is the same thing as
> over-embellishment.  Over-embellishment, much like over-production, 
> is a result of not knowing when a song is done and continuing to add
> things to it.  Take a listen to "And Dream of Sheep"--one of the
> best cuts on the album.  No balalaikas, no pan-flute, no digerido,
> in short (and to avoid any further misspellings of words not found
> in "spell") a nice little un-embellished song.  

Then again, take a listen to "Jig of Life" and "Waking the Witch", the
best cuts on the album: dijeridu, uillean pipes, fiddles, synth
guitar, pitch-shifted distorted vocals, helicopters, etc.  Quality
comes in many forms.

			>oug

"Where on your palm is my little line?"